1
00:00:10,810 --> 00:00:08,839
on this episode of skeptic Oh Alex talks

2
00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:10,820
with crop circle researcher and author

3
00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:14,730
Suzanne Taylor hold on hold on let me

4
00:00:22,370 --> 00:00:17,490
add a little update to this episode it's

5
00:00:25,250 --> 00:00:22,380
now October 16 2014 and you know soon

6
00:00:27,259 --> 00:00:25,260
after publishing this episode I started

7
00:00:29,390 --> 00:00:27,269
to get a lot of feedback from you

8
00:00:31,460 --> 00:00:29,400
skeptical listeners you folks really

9
00:00:34,010 --> 00:00:31,470
keep me straight I really appreciated

10
00:00:36,020 --> 00:00:34,020
that people started tearing apart the

11
00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:36,030
whole crop circle phenomena some of the

12
00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:37,770
claims that I had kind of stumbled into

13
00:00:42,500 --> 00:00:40,890
and not adequately researched I totally

14
00:00:45,049 --> 00:00:42,510
have to take the blame for that so you

15
00:00:47,029 --> 00:00:45,059
guys kind of gently nudged me towards

16
00:00:49,010 --> 00:00:47,039
the evidence and it didn't take much the

17
00:00:51,170 --> 00:00:49,020
evidence is really pretty substantial

18
00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:51,180
and has been out there for a while again

19
00:00:55,850 --> 00:00:53,610
something I could have should have known

20
00:00:58,130 --> 00:00:55,860
but I think the best evidence suggests

21
00:01:00,860 --> 00:00:58,140
that crop circles are a man-made

22
00:01:04,130 --> 00:01:00,870
phenomena and as far as claims about

23
00:01:07,940 --> 00:01:04,140
paranormal activity surrounding the

24
00:01:10,130 --> 00:01:07,950
making of and being in crop circles well

25
00:01:11,899 --> 00:01:10,140
you know I don't know that's a separate

26
00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:11,909
phenomena that really has to be treated

27
00:01:16,490 --> 00:01:13,530
differently first we have to separate

28
00:01:19,130 --> 00:01:16,500
out the fact that it's not as near as we

29
00:01:20,749 --> 00:01:19,140
can tell a paranormal phenomena the best

30
00:01:23,630 --> 00:01:20,759
evidence suggests that these things are

31
00:01:26,359 --> 00:01:23,640
man made by normal means i got the story

32
00:01:28,850 --> 00:01:26,369
wrong fortunately as I've experienced

33
00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:28,860
time and time again skeptic Oh is kind

34
00:01:34,069 --> 00:01:31,650
of a self-correcting process there's

35
00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:34,079
enough smart people listening to this

36
00:01:40,609 --> 00:01:37,290
show that if I get something wrong they

37
00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:40,619
tell me so thanks for that I may do a

38
00:01:46,969 --> 00:01:43,290
follow-up show on this I have been

39
00:01:49,069 --> 00:01:46,979
talking to Suzanne Taylor it hasn't been

40
00:01:51,740 --> 00:01:49,079
a pleasant conversation I called her up

41
00:01:53,359 --> 00:01:51,750
and told her hey I got this story wrong

42
00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:53,369
what are you doing what are you telling

43
00:02:00,260 --> 00:01:56,250
me to her credit she stood up to my

44
00:02:03,709 --> 00:02:00,270
challenges and presented her case but in

45
00:02:06,980 --> 00:02:03,719
the end it just doesn't make any sense

46
00:02:08,719 --> 00:02:06,990
and the people involved just don't seem

47
00:02:10,969 --> 00:02:08,729
credible and I think anyone who's looked

48
00:02:13,010 --> 00:02:10,979
at this very loan comes to the same

49
00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:13,020
conclusion as soon as you start saying

50
00:02:15,890 --> 00:02:13,770
the

51
00:02:17,660 --> 00:02:15,900
one's man-made this one's man-made oh I

52
00:02:20,180 --> 00:02:17,670
think this one's real oh no that one's

53
00:02:22,100 --> 00:02:20,190
man-made I just think you have to give

54
00:02:23,750 --> 00:02:22,110
up and say okay the best evidence

55
00:02:26,870 --> 00:02:23,760
suggested there man made by normal means

56
00:02:29,870 --> 00:02:26,880
move on and that's what I'm doing but

57
00:02:33,020 --> 00:02:29,880
for posterity sake I'm leaving the

58
00:02:47,020 --> 00:02:33,030
original episode that I broadcast here

59
00:02:51,050 --> 00:02:49,280
welcome to skeptic oh where we explore

60
00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:51,060
controversial science with leading

61
00:02:55,729 --> 00:02:53,610
researchers thinkers and their critics

62
00:02:57,619 --> 00:02:55,739
i'm your host Alex Karras and on this

63
00:03:01,070 --> 00:02:57,629
episode of skeptical we're going to

64
00:03:03,470 --> 00:03:01,080
explore crop circles a topic I'm rather

65
00:03:05,570 --> 00:03:03,480
embarrassed to say that until this

66
00:03:07,610 --> 00:03:05,580
episode I really didn't know a lot about

67
00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:07,620
and I think in a way my lack of

68
00:03:14,119 --> 00:03:11,250
knowledge speaks to the general skeptic

69
00:03:16,670 --> 00:03:14,129
Oh experience for me and that is when

70
00:03:18,949 --> 00:03:16,680
there's a controversial topic even

71
00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:18,959
though I've explored so many of them I

72
00:03:24,050 --> 00:03:21,450
really do get suckered into the

73
00:03:26,780 --> 00:03:24,060
skeptical perspective so much the time

74
00:03:29,780 --> 00:03:26,790
and so it was with crop circles I mean I

75
00:03:31,250 --> 00:03:29,790
knew there was something to it I had

76
00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:31,260
read enough to know that there's

77
00:03:36,259 --> 00:03:34,530
actually some scientific evidence that

78
00:03:38,030 --> 00:03:36,269
the crops that were a part of this

79
00:03:40,190 --> 00:03:38,040
phenomena were showing some different

80
00:03:42,949 --> 00:03:40,200
properties than than ones that were not

81
00:03:46,699 --> 00:03:42,959
but I don't think I had allowed myself

82
00:03:48,860 --> 00:03:46,709
to really grasp the significance of this

83
00:03:51,589 --> 00:03:48,870
phenomena and I think the reason I

84
00:03:54,650 --> 00:03:51,599
didn't is the reason that we so often

85
00:03:56,420 --> 00:03:54,660
don't want to go there with these kind

86
00:03:59,240 --> 00:03:56,430
of things and that is that it's so

87
00:04:02,270 --> 00:03:59,250
unsettling visa V the world view that

88
00:04:04,069 --> 00:04:02,280
I've grown accustomed to I mean I can

89
00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:04,079
get to the point where i can accept the

90
00:04:09,349 --> 00:04:06,530
reality that somehow there's this other

91
00:04:12,289 --> 00:04:09,359
consciousness out there that is using

92
00:04:14,569 --> 00:04:12,299
advanced technology to visit us from

93
00:04:16,670 --> 00:04:14,579
beyond and this technology and

94
00:04:19,849 --> 00:04:16,680
consciousness clearly seems to be

95
00:04:22,250 --> 00:04:19,859
mutilating animals and abducting people

96
00:04:24,350 --> 00:04:22,260
that's just where the evidence leads I

97
00:04:26,450 --> 00:04:24,360
don't know how any reasonable person can

98
00:04:28,670 --> 00:04:26,460
come to a different conclusion but when

99
00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:28,680
it comes to crop circles I guess they

100
00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:31,050
were just a little bit too new agey for

101
00:04:36,980 --> 00:04:34,530
me to really fit them into my expanded

102
00:04:39,950 --> 00:04:36,990
consciousness worldview but to heck with

103
00:04:42,860 --> 00:04:39,960
that gotta follow the data wherever it

104
00:04:45,140 --> 00:04:42,870
leads and in this case I found a good

105
00:04:48,050 --> 00:04:45,150
leader I hope you enjoy my interview

106
00:04:49,939 --> 00:04:48,060
with Suzanne Taylor I did today we

107
00:04:51,860 --> 00:04:49,949
welcome filmmaker Suzanne Taylor to

108
00:04:54,740 --> 00:04:51,870
skeptic Oh Suzanne is here to talk about

109
00:04:56,810 --> 00:04:54,750
her film what on earth inside the crop

110
00:04:58,250 --> 00:04:56,820
circle mystery and tell us about her

111
00:05:00,130 --> 00:04:58,260
experience

112
00:05:02,570 --> 00:05:00,140
researching the crop circle phenomenon

113
00:05:05,300 --> 00:05:02,580
Suzanne thanks so much for joining me

114
00:05:07,460 --> 00:05:05,310
welcome to skeptic Oh Oh Alex I'm

115
00:05:09,050 --> 00:05:07,470
honored Jeff was lovely reputation and

116
00:05:12,890 --> 00:05:09,060
I've listened to the bunch of your shows

117
00:05:15,470 --> 00:05:12,900
and you're a good guy oh thanks that's

118
00:05:18,020 --> 00:05:15,480
so nice to hear you know this movie of

119
00:05:20,030 --> 00:05:18,030
yours it's been out for a couple years

120
00:05:23,900 --> 00:05:20,040
but it's still extremely relevant it's

121
00:05:27,230 --> 00:05:23,910
also received very high praise from all

122
00:05:29,930 --> 00:05:27,240
sorts of well-known folks tell us a

123
00:05:31,580 --> 00:05:29,940
little bit about how you became involved

124
00:05:33,410 --> 00:05:31,590
in this research I get the impression

125
00:05:35,780 --> 00:05:33,420
from watching the film that you've

126
00:05:38,030 --> 00:05:35,790
compiled a lot of these interviews over

127
00:05:41,420 --> 00:05:38,040
many many years can you tell us a little

128
00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:41,430
bit about the history of the film well I

129
00:05:45,890 --> 00:05:43,770
actually had you know I'm not a

130
00:05:48,650 --> 00:05:45,900
filmmaker going out and found a subject

131
00:05:53,330 --> 00:05:48,660
I was deeply involved in the crop circle

132
00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:53,340
phenomenon and was so taken by how it

133
00:06:00,590 --> 00:05:56,690
could affect mass consciousness that I

134
00:06:03,740 --> 00:06:00,600
kind of made a vow that if I was going

135
00:06:05,810 --> 00:06:03,750
to do anything unique with my life which

136
00:06:07,370 --> 00:06:05,820
has always really been about raising

137
00:06:09,500 --> 00:06:07,380
consciousness one way or another that's

138
00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:09,510
all the kind of project Center events

139
00:06:13,940 --> 00:06:12,090
that i've produced but if I was going to

140
00:06:15,590 --> 00:06:13,950
do something truly unique that no one

141
00:06:18,290 --> 00:06:15,600
else was going to do I was going to tell

142
00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:18,300
the world about crop circles not that we

143
00:06:24,700 --> 00:06:20,730
know where they're coming from the only

144
00:06:27,620 --> 00:06:24,710
thing we can say definitively is not us

145
00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:27,630
of course that's hoaxing aside we know

146
00:06:32,660 --> 00:06:30,330
there's you know just as in every

147
00:06:35,390 --> 00:06:32,670
category of life there they're the

148
00:06:36,860 --> 00:06:35,400
terrorists in the political world we

149
00:06:39,250 --> 00:06:36,870
have the hoaxers in the crop circle

150
00:06:43,100 --> 00:06:39,260
world they keep us on our codes but

151
00:06:45,170 --> 00:06:43,110
hoaxing aside we have a genuine mystery

152
00:06:47,930 --> 00:06:45,180
and if anybody we're looking at the

153
00:06:50,540 --> 00:06:47,940
evidence you would see that the evidence

154
00:06:52,460 --> 00:06:50,550
points to the fact that we can't make

155
00:06:54,890 --> 00:06:52,470
these things and even though the

156
00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:54,900
rational mind says oh come on people go

157
00:06:58,700 --> 00:06:56,250
out and stomp them but when you take

158
00:07:00,890 --> 00:06:58,710
material into the laboratory and you get

159
00:07:03,140 --> 00:07:00,900
biological changes to the plants and

160
00:07:05,630 --> 00:07:03,150
chemical changes to the soil inside crop

161
00:07:08,030 --> 00:07:05,640
circles with real you know experiments

162
00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:08,040
done in with real scientific protocol

163
00:07:13,670 --> 00:07:11,370
then you know you you heads up

164
00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:13,680
it's worth paying attention to it opens

165
00:07:19,010 --> 00:07:16,650
us to mystery it opens up to what's

166
00:07:21,379 --> 00:07:19,020
beyond this who knows I mean really

167
00:07:24,620 --> 00:07:21,389
we're so definitive you know being

168
00:07:26,870 --> 00:07:24,630
skeptical oh no anything beyond 3d

169
00:07:29,420 --> 00:07:26,880
reality here we're very skeptical about

170
00:07:31,879 --> 00:07:29,430
why why not be curious much more

171
00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:31,889
propitious you know that lets new stuff

172
00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:35,970
come in and so you know what my

173
00:07:39,830 --> 00:07:37,650
involvement with the circles went back

174
00:07:41,030 --> 00:07:39,840
to the fact that I was producing events

175
00:07:43,310 --> 00:07:41,040
and projects that had to do with

176
00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:43,320
consciousness and the circles just came

177
00:07:48,230 --> 00:07:46,050
along as another topic another subject

178
00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:48,240
matter that that you know was it was

179
00:07:53,450 --> 00:07:51,570
intriguing but it was so intriguing that

180
00:07:58,180 --> 00:07:53,460
I got you know more and more pulled into

181
00:08:01,580 --> 00:07:58,190
it I went to England to visit circles I

182
00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:01,590
you know was was part of that whole

183
00:08:05,540 --> 00:08:03,810
community over there and there is one

184
00:08:07,790 --> 00:08:05,550
you know the circles are focused in

185
00:08:09,830 --> 00:08:07,800
England there there in 40 some odd other

186
00:08:11,870 --> 00:08:09,840
countries as well but you have this

187
00:08:14,180 --> 00:08:11,880
little area in England where you know

188
00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:14,190
every growing season every summer you're

189
00:08:17,930 --> 00:08:15,810
going to get crop circles and it's a

190
00:08:20,779 --> 00:08:17,940
tourist attraction it's a whole world

191
00:08:22,940 --> 00:08:20,789
over there and I became part of that

192
00:08:26,270 --> 00:08:22,950
world I would speak at the conference's

193
00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:26,280
i would write pieces about them just as

194
00:08:32,510 --> 00:08:30,690
a people from all over the world gather

195
00:08:35,659 --> 00:08:32,520
in England every summer we call

196
00:08:37,399 --> 00:08:35,669
ourselves crappies and we are the people

197
00:08:39,290 --> 00:08:37,409
who write the books and get the

198
00:08:40,699 --> 00:08:39,300
information out and take the pictures

199
00:08:43,490 --> 00:08:40,709
and what have you and there's a little

200
00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:43,500
community of us and then we go back home

201
00:08:48,380 --> 00:08:45,330
to all the various countries we come

202
00:08:49,820 --> 00:08:48,390
from and and spread the word so you know

203
00:08:51,590 --> 00:08:49,830
in the course of all of that I said well

204
00:08:54,620 --> 00:08:51,600
how do you really spread the word you

205
00:08:58,390 --> 00:08:54,630
make movies and I had been an actress I

206
00:09:02,030 --> 00:08:58,400
was not unfamiliar with the the world of

207
00:09:03,680 --> 00:09:02,040
film and so I just stepped over the

208
00:09:06,290 --> 00:09:03,690
other side of the camera and I said okay

209
00:09:08,930 --> 00:09:06,300
I'm going to get movies to happen and

210
00:09:11,900 --> 00:09:08,940
indeed I I have done that actually there

211
00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:11,910
was an earlier film ten years ago called

212
00:09:15,980 --> 00:09:14,130
crop circles quest for truth I was the

213
00:09:18,410 --> 00:09:15,990
executive producer of that one I put it

214
00:09:20,390 --> 00:09:18,420
together and somebody who had one and

215
00:09:23,060 --> 00:09:20,400
had an academy award nominations

216
00:09:25,190 --> 00:09:23,070
documentary filmmaker for that film Waco

217
00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:25,200
so one of the biggest documentaries

218
00:09:31,100 --> 00:09:27,410
ever until Michael Moore came along and

219
00:09:33,350 --> 00:09:31,110
so he was fascinated by the circles and

220
00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:33,360
so he was the actual film maker of that

221
00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:36,210
first film but then I I was i put

222
00:09:39,500 --> 00:09:37,770
together that shoot i knew more about

223
00:09:43,340 --> 00:09:39,510
the phenomenon than he did we were in

224
00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:43,350
England for 10 weeks shoot and I he was

225
00:09:49,130 --> 00:09:45,810
doing a kind of history of the crop

226
00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:49,140
circles and when that was finished I

227
00:09:53,330 --> 00:09:50,370
thought you know there's another film

228
00:09:56,390 --> 00:09:53,340
here The Passion of the crop circles why

229
00:09:58,480 --> 00:09:56,400
are these people like me although I

230
00:10:00,680 --> 00:09:58,490
hadn't given up my life many of those

231
00:10:03,380 --> 00:10:00,690
people who are part of that crappie

232
00:10:05,660 --> 00:10:03,390
world have actually given up careers to

233
00:10:07,970 --> 00:10:05,670
go and you know be prop circle people

234
00:10:10,540 --> 00:10:07,980
and why and they're fascinating people

235
00:10:14,330 --> 00:10:10,550
Mavericks interesting people in it

236
00:10:16,340 --> 00:10:14,340
mathematicians brilliant geometers what

237
00:10:18,560 --> 00:10:16,350
will you know what what's the story here

238
00:10:20,750 --> 00:10:18,570
and I knew the story because I knew all

239
00:10:23,030 --> 00:10:20,760
these people so I knew who had the best

240
00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:23,040
stories to tell I knew who is credible

241
00:10:30,740 --> 00:10:28,410
and so I over took me six years to make

242
00:10:34,460 --> 00:10:30,750
the movie be I would return each summer

243
00:10:37,070 --> 00:10:34,470
shoot some more and and then we the

244
00:10:39,230 --> 00:10:37,080
movie actually came out in 2009 the end

245
00:10:40,850 --> 00:10:39,240
of 2009 but it is what you would

246
00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:40,860
consider in Evergreen there's one

247
00:10:45,020 --> 00:10:43,050
reference in it to hit an event that

248
00:10:47,330 --> 00:10:45,030
actually has happened so when I say it's

249
00:10:49,430 --> 00:10:47,340
going to happen mmm I've dated the film

250
00:10:51,050 --> 00:10:49,440
but in terms of the information about

251
00:10:57,340 --> 00:10:51,060
the crowd it wasn't about crop circles

252
00:11:03,230 --> 00:10:57,350
it was about the 2012 into the world but

253
00:11:05,300 --> 00:11:03,240
when when I finished the film it it's

254
00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:05,310
the same story the story about the

255
00:11:09,110 --> 00:11:06,930
circles hasn't changed there hasn't been

256
00:11:11,300 --> 00:11:09,120
a new startling development since then

257
00:11:14,270 --> 00:11:11,310
that would make you know the the movie I

258
00:11:16,970 --> 00:11:14,280
did obsolete in anyway so it's what we

259
00:11:18,620 --> 00:11:16,980
call an evergreen and it's huge claim to

260
00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:18,630
fame as you mentioned it was well

261
00:11:23,750 --> 00:11:20,850
received it got a really good review in

262
00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:23,760
the New York Times well I you know it's

263
00:11:28,490 --> 00:11:24,930
a good thing I didn't die of a heart

264
00:11:30,890 --> 00:11:28,500
attack that that any filmmaker the dream

265
00:11:33,530 --> 00:11:30,900
of any filmmaker making any film is a

266
00:11:35,540 --> 00:11:33,540
good review in the New York Times and I

267
00:11:37,370 --> 00:11:35,550
actually somebody took a video of me as

268
00:11:38,930 --> 00:11:37,380
I was opening the paper and I'm so

269
00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:38,940
hysterical in it but I couldn't

270
00:11:44,210 --> 00:11:40,530
put it on facebook I look like a

271
00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:44,220
madwoman so I think that answered your

272
00:11:48,290 --> 00:11:46,650
question Alex no no it didn't from a

273
00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:48,300
very deep kind of this is almost too

274
00:11:52,970 --> 00:11:50,490
inside baseball to even touch on but the

275
00:11:54,590 --> 00:11:52,980
even though the New York's Times felt

276
00:11:58,820 --> 00:11:54,600
compelled to write a positive review

277
00:12:00,830 --> 00:11:58,830
they did have to slip in that little tip

278
00:12:03,230 --> 00:12:00,840
of the hat to the to the mainstream

279
00:12:04,850 --> 00:12:03,240
little green men kind of reference with

280
00:12:05,780 --> 00:12:04,860
all those just just fascinating it's

281
00:12:07,670 --> 00:12:05,790
like okay we're going to write a good

282
00:12:08,990 --> 00:12:07,680
review but don't worry guys we're still

283
00:12:11,060 --> 00:12:09,000
part of the team it's the little green

284
00:12:13,190 --> 00:12:11,070
men thing yeah really with Alistair I

285
00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:13,200
took of this German I actually called

286
00:12:18,020 --> 00:12:16,290
the reviewer to thank her and in the

287
00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:18,030
course of the conversation oh I'm gonna

288
00:12:23,300 --> 00:12:19,890
see says I can say this but you know

289
00:12:24,770 --> 00:12:23,310
what we're just chatting now I said to

290
00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:24,780
her I you know I was so grateful she

291
00:12:28,340 --> 00:12:26,250
wrote a good review because so many of

292
00:12:30,050 --> 00:12:28,350
people are just skeptical from the from

293
00:12:31,190 --> 00:12:30,060
the get-go it doesn't matter they're

294
00:12:33,170 --> 00:12:31,200
gonna they're going to write the

295
00:12:35,690 --> 00:12:33,180
skepticism whatever they see in front of

296
00:12:37,220 --> 00:12:35,700
them and and I said that to her i said

297
00:12:39,230 --> 00:12:37,230
and they're going to say where's the

298
00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:39,240
other side the other side being the

299
00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:41,730
hookers like if you had a bank invention

300
00:12:45,950 --> 00:12:43,050
you should have bank robbers their

301
00:12:47,690 --> 00:12:45,960
jewish your testimony no no we don't

302
00:12:49,550 --> 00:12:47,700
want the hoaxers to have any say they're

303
00:12:52,490 --> 00:12:49,560
they're terrible they're the criminals

304
00:12:54,860 --> 00:12:52,500
other other so i said to her you know i

305
00:12:56,750 --> 00:12:54,870
get this from from critics you know

306
00:12:59,810 --> 00:12:56,760
where's the other side and she said you

307
00:13:02,110 --> 00:12:59,820
know I didn't review the film you didn't

308
00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:02,120
make I reviewed the film you did make

309
00:13:06,860 --> 00:13:04,770
and I thought oh that is mad quote you

310
00:13:09,590 --> 00:13:06,870
just know so you can only quote my

311
00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:09,600
actual review so we got little green men

312
00:13:14,300 --> 00:13:11,490
in there but it's a sweet review you

313
00:13:16,670 --> 00:13:14,310
know it's a lovely review I did want to

314
00:13:20,180 --> 00:13:16,680
return to one part of what you talked

315
00:13:21,980 --> 00:13:20,190
about and that is your personal

316
00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:21,990
experience your bio your background you

317
00:13:24,950 --> 00:13:23,370
know we're chatting into this just a

318
00:13:28,130 --> 00:13:24,960
second ago before we got on the air and

319
00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:28,140
that's that we all have this tendency to

320
00:13:32,870 --> 00:13:30,330
talk about our background and weave it

321
00:13:34,370 --> 00:13:32,880
together into this tapestry that makes

322
00:13:36,620 --> 00:13:34,380
sense and oh you've done this

323
00:13:38,210 --> 00:13:36,630
consciousness work in conferences for a

324
00:13:40,010 --> 00:13:38,220
long time and you've evolved into this

325
00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:40,020
but there's another way to reduce story

326
00:13:43,820 --> 00:13:41,490
I think you're very open about it and

327
00:13:46,579 --> 00:13:43,830
your website but you kind of tell your

328
00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:46,589
whole story and it's very open very

329
00:13:52,950 --> 00:13:49,410
honest and when I came away from it was

330
00:13:55,980 --> 00:13:52,960
is this appreciation for how one person

331
00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:55,990
and in a very humble way really is your

332
00:13:58,650 --> 00:13:57,250
approach this can really make a

333
00:13:59,940 --> 00:13:58,660
difference and you have made a

334
00:14:03,030 --> 00:13:59,950
difference you've made a difference in

335
00:14:04,590 --> 00:14:03,040
these consciousness conferences that

336
00:14:06,450 --> 00:14:04,600
you've kind of spearheaded and brought

337
00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:06,460
so many people in and then you've made a

338
00:14:11,310 --> 00:14:08,890
substantial difference a real measurable

339
00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:11,320
difference in this crop circle

340
00:14:15,990 --> 00:14:14,530
phenomenon in bringing that to public

341
00:14:18,210 --> 00:14:16,000
awareness as you just talked about so

342
00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:18,220
what I want to tip my hat to you and say

343
00:14:21,390 --> 00:14:19,690
thank you for doing this kind of work

344
00:14:23,970 --> 00:14:21,400
because it's hard it's not really

345
00:14:25,860 --> 00:14:23,980
appreciated a lot of times by a large

346
00:14:27,870 --> 00:14:25,870
number of people and you're going to get

347
00:14:30,060 --> 00:14:27,880
a lot of scorn and ridicule that kind of

348
00:14:32,730 --> 00:14:30,070
comes with the territory but tell us

349
00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:32,740
anything you can about your personal

350
00:14:39,300 --> 00:14:36,610
experience through life I guess in why

351
00:14:41,850 --> 00:14:39,310
you felt compelled to stick your neck

352
00:14:44,700 --> 00:14:41,860
out there in such a way and try and make

353
00:14:46,470 --> 00:14:44,710
a difference in this way I don't you

354
00:14:48,780 --> 00:14:46,480
know some of us just get a mission Alex

355
00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:48,790
you know I don't know you know I just

356
00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:50,530
have this mission to make the world

357
00:14:56,190 --> 00:14:54,130
better and the when I stumbled across

358
00:14:58,650 --> 00:14:56,200
the human potential movement many years

359
00:15:00,450 --> 00:14:58,660
ago it was that was the better the world

360
00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:00,460
needed to be you know we needed to wake

361
00:15:04,980 --> 00:15:02,050
up we needed to see the bigger picture

362
00:15:07,860 --> 00:15:04,990
you know I'm a Phi Beta Kappa summa [\h__\h]

363
00:15:11,130 --> 00:15:07,870
laude graduate of NYU I was always good

364
00:15:13,140 --> 00:15:11,140
at getting things right and it you know

365
00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:13,150
it just was my side I come home with a

366
00:15:17,220 --> 00:15:15,010
98 my dad would say where's the other

367
00:15:19,710 --> 00:15:17,230
two points any the sort of kidding but

368
00:15:21,300 --> 00:15:19,720
you know it was a standard you know my

369
00:15:24,390 --> 00:15:21,310
dad was a big was the president of his

370
00:15:26,430 --> 00:15:24,400
Bar Association you know he did things

371
00:15:29,250 --> 00:15:26,440
well my mom was president of the women

372
00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:29,260
of NYU which she entered at age 15 in

373
00:15:33,540 --> 00:15:31,930
her senior year she was the president at

374
00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:33,550
the same time you came to a point that a

375
00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:35,410
lot of people don't come to you came to

376
00:15:41,070 --> 00:15:38,170
this wake-up moment and said gee I

377
00:15:43,770 --> 00:15:41,080
followed all the cookie crumbs like I've

378
00:15:46,530 --> 00:15:43,780
supposed to done the right thing going

379
00:15:49,860 --> 00:15:46,540
to school gotten married done this thing

380
00:15:52,410 --> 00:15:49,870
and yet Who am I really where am I going

381
00:15:55,020 --> 00:15:52,420
and I think that's a brave moment that a

382
00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:55,030
lot of people shy away from they come

383
00:15:57,900 --> 00:15:56,410
right up to the edge of that but then

384
00:16:01,560 --> 00:15:57,910
they don't push through to the other

385
00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:01,570
side and say okay I am or I do have to

386
00:16:05,610 --> 00:16:03,850
try and make a difference I don't know

387
00:16:06,569 --> 00:16:05,620
it just came with the territory you know

388
00:16:08,220 --> 00:16:06,579
and it is a ver

389
00:16:10,919 --> 00:16:08,230
vulnerable place you know thank you

390
00:16:14,519 --> 00:16:10,929
sweet you saying I'm humble whatever but

391
00:16:18,780 --> 00:16:14,529
I also get shot at a lot and you know I

392
00:16:20,609 --> 00:16:18,790
can't say as I enjoy that but but I just

393
00:16:23,669 --> 00:16:20,619
accepted you know that's the way it goes

394
00:16:25,410 --> 00:16:23,679
in this world and I just keep my sort of

395
00:16:27,479 --> 00:16:25,420
fortitude in my strengths and I keep

396
00:16:29,699 --> 00:16:27,489
moving and I almost don't have any

397
00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:29,709
choice I mean what can I tell you you

398
00:16:37,530 --> 00:16:33,850
know I in Los Angeles my house is a

399
00:16:41,460 --> 00:16:37,540
gathering place for the Mavericks and

400
00:16:44,039 --> 00:16:41,470
people people sort of like me more kind

401
00:16:47,220 --> 00:16:44,049
of my audience actually it's hard to

402
00:16:50,579 --> 00:16:47,230
find the peers who are really out there

403
00:16:52,859 --> 00:16:50,589
in this dramatic way trying to really

404
00:16:55,439 --> 00:16:52,869
make a difference and it's a funny time

405
00:16:59,729 --> 00:16:55,449
Alex I think uh you know you look around

406
00:17:02,789 --> 00:16:59,739
for who are your heroes now and um it

407
00:17:04,649 --> 00:17:02,799
would during the whole from the sixties

408
00:17:07,439 --> 00:17:04,659
on with the human potential but we had a

409
00:17:09,509 --> 00:17:07,449
lot of heroes of gurus and what have you

410
00:17:12,059 --> 00:17:09,519
that we looked up to and we're helping

411
00:17:14,159 --> 00:17:12,069
us and we're teaching us but you know

412
00:17:17,340 --> 00:17:14,169
you look out now well some of those same

413
00:17:20,309 --> 00:17:17,350
people are still doing the same thing I

414
00:17:23,279 --> 00:17:20,319
presume impressing new people who come

415
00:17:25,079 --> 00:17:23,289
along with just starting to wake up but

416
00:17:27,449 --> 00:17:25,089
in terms of people I'd be interested to

417
00:17:30,299 --> 00:17:27,459
hear who you think is leading any

418
00:17:32,820 --> 00:17:30,309
parades now because I love having

419
00:17:37,980 --> 00:17:32,830
mentors I love having people I look up

420
00:17:39,659 --> 00:17:37,990
to but they're hard to find now I mean

421
00:17:42,180 --> 00:17:39,669
is that something you know that we can

422
00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:42,190
chat about that you can can i interview

423
00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:45,370
you that's a very interesting question

424
00:17:52,500 --> 00:17:49,690
it really really is because I can relate

425
00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:52,510
to what you're saying about this idea of

426
00:17:57,299 --> 00:17:55,570
heroes and role models being important

427
00:17:59,940 --> 00:17:57,309
in my life as I was growing up and

428
00:18:03,539 --> 00:17:59,950
people that I could point to in so many

429
00:18:05,549 --> 00:18:03,549
of those people have really either

430
00:18:08,460 --> 00:18:05,559
fallen by the wayside and got out of the

431
00:18:10,769 --> 00:18:08,470
game or fallen in a different way that

432
00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:10,779
we we no longer see them that way in

433
00:18:16,169 --> 00:18:12,490
fact we see them as kind of antiheroes

434
00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:16,179
or models of you know who not to be oh I

435
00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:17,770
got all kinds of names running through

436
00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:19,330
my head now but I better not save them

437
00:18:22,450 --> 00:18:19,970
but you're

438
00:18:24,970 --> 00:18:22,460
right I lots of feet of clay out there

439
00:18:27,070 --> 00:18:24,980
about you know I'm even interested in

440
00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:27,080
who doesn't have feet of clay and really

441
00:18:31,300 --> 00:18:29,090
who I'm always looking for who can I

442
00:18:33,460 --> 00:18:31,310
i'll tell you the person that you know

443
00:18:37,360 --> 00:18:33,470
i'll give you mine if you give me yours

444
00:18:39,070 --> 00:18:37,370
uh agree mine anyway but the person I I

445
00:18:42,820 --> 00:18:39,080
look up to the most in the world right

446
00:18:46,290 --> 00:18:42,830
now is Graham Hancock uh I just love

447
00:18:50,140 --> 00:18:46,300
listening to him he's so passionate and

448
00:18:53,470 --> 00:18:50,150
heartfelt and smart and does the field

449
00:18:55,750 --> 00:18:53,480
work has been in the trenches of you

450
00:18:59,110 --> 00:18:55,760
know wherever it is that the

451
00:19:01,000 --> 00:18:59,120
breakthroughs might come from I just

452
00:19:03,370 --> 00:19:01,010
think the world of him and also a Rupert

453
00:19:05,140 --> 00:19:03,380
Sheldrake who I loved your interview

454
00:19:06,970 --> 00:19:05,150
with him that you did I guess you did it

455
00:19:09,310 --> 00:19:06,980
last year when that whole Ted thing was

456
00:19:11,530 --> 00:19:09,320
erupting it was such a good piece I've

457
00:19:12,940 --> 00:19:11,540
already passed it along and I just

458
00:19:16,630 --> 00:19:12,950
discovered it recently because I'm

459
00:19:19,110 --> 00:19:16,640
involved in embroiled and Ted so I you

460
00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:19,120
know I've got my ears open for

461
00:19:23,110 --> 00:19:21,650
interesting things in that category your

462
00:19:24,940 --> 00:19:23,120
interview with him was absolutely

463
00:19:27,340 --> 00:19:24,950
wonderful you listen to some of those

464
00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:27,350
things like that you think Oh get that

465
00:19:33,070 --> 00:19:30,290
in front of everyone you know such basic

466
00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:33,080
truth being spoken and there's so much

467
00:19:39,190 --> 00:19:36,650
gray mass great great illusion floating

468
00:19:41,740 --> 00:19:39,200
around and then you get this clarity of

469
00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:41,750
some people who come through and I guess

470
00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:44,330
that's what your show is all about but

471
00:19:48,790 --> 00:19:46,210
those are two my real heroes and my

472
00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:48,800
fundamental hero even before that who's

473
00:19:54,940 --> 00:19:50,930
been my hero for 30 years have you if

474
00:19:57,220 --> 00:19:54,950
you got ever met or gotten involved with

475
00:19:59,740 --> 00:19:57,230
or familiar with bryan swim do you know

476
00:20:01,840 --> 00:19:59,750
his work just a little bit and i saw him

477
00:20:03,310 --> 00:20:01,850
on your website and and i am aware of

478
00:20:04,810 --> 00:20:03,320
him but but not as much i should

479
00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:04,820
interview him sometime tell me what your

480
00:20:09,910 --> 00:20:06,770
what your thoughts are he's my big hero

481
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:09,920
he's he's mine all time big hero who

482
00:20:15,540 --> 00:20:12,050
doesn't disappoint doesn't had no clay

483
00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:15,550
in his feet and he's got the story of

484
00:20:22,510 --> 00:20:20,050
what this cosmic creation story is the

485
00:20:24,730 --> 00:20:22,520
tagline on his book the universe is a

486
00:20:27,130 --> 00:20:24,740
green dragons which is I've fought over

487
00:20:29,290 --> 00:20:27,140
a thousand copies of that Alex you can't

488
00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:29,300
know me and must have that book handed

489
00:20:33,460 --> 00:20:31,730
to you as the kind of basis that we all

490
00:20:35,909 --> 00:20:33,470
could agree on

491
00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:35,919
we are working oh we r not in the

492
00:20:41,529 --> 00:20:38,570
judeo-christian story anymore where are

493
00:20:45,580 --> 00:20:41,539
we what what what is what's the meaning

494
00:20:49,210 --> 00:20:45,590
of life why are we here uh and that book

495
00:20:53,500 --> 00:20:49,220
to me and Brian swims work is the just a

496
00:20:55,539 --> 00:20:53,510
bottom line of not not the book is not

497
00:20:58,299 --> 00:20:55,549
so much objective this that and the

498
00:21:00,700 --> 00:20:58,309
other as its metaphorical and you read

499
00:21:02,890 --> 00:21:00,710
it and he just he's brilliant and he

500
00:21:05,860 --> 00:21:02,900
takes you into this visceral

501
00:21:09,279 --> 00:21:05,870
understanding of the privilege of being

502
00:21:11,590 --> 00:21:09,289
a human being which really is kind of

503
00:21:13,779 --> 00:21:11,600
what have you come out with and not only

504
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:13,789
the privileged but the responsibility as

505
00:21:21,730 --> 00:21:18,490
well and so you know I'm big on touting

506
00:21:26,049 --> 00:21:21,740
Brian and that book but when i get past

507
00:21:29,740 --> 00:21:26,059
those three you know i don't know you

508
00:21:30,820 --> 00:21:29,750
you have your top at all well I was

509
00:21:33,100 --> 00:21:30,830
going to say I mean I definitely

510
00:21:35,620 --> 00:21:33,110
resonate with Rupert sheldrick and from

511
00:21:37,630 --> 00:21:35,630
the very beginning of this show um I

512
00:21:38,980 --> 00:21:37,640
ight not only resonated with his work

513
00:21:42,100 --> 00:21:38,990
but then in connecting with him

514
00:21:46,060 --> 00:21:42,110
personally I was really impressed by his

515
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:46,070
openness and his willingness to help of

516
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:48,890
me yeah I was I didn't have any

517
00:21:54,070 --> 00:21:50,450
background in this at all and he was

518
00:21:56,169 --> 00:21:54,080
encouraging and he was open and and in a

519
00:21:58,630 --> 00:21:56,179
way that I think I've seen him be with

520
00:22:01,419 --> 00:21:58,640
other people along the way and I think

521
00:22:05,049 --> 00:22:01,429
is so vital in this process you know

522
00:22:09,370 --> 00:22:05,059
because it is growing this little seed

523
00:22:11,950 --> 00:22:09,380
of more open people who are trying to

524
00:22:13,659 --> 00:22:11,960
figure out some of these big picture

525
00:22:17,110 --> 00:22:13,669
questions that have been totally

526
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:17,120
bypassed by mainstream science and has

527
00:22:21,730 --> 00:22:18,730
really love people I think in this

528
00:22:24,010 --> 00:22:21,740
really unsettling state of saying gee I

529
00:22:26,110 --> 00:22:24,020
have these questions everyone I know

530
00:22:29,110 --> 00:22:26,120
seems to have these questions why am I

531
00:22:30,970 --> 00:22:29,120
continuously told oh don't don't worry

532
00:22:33,070 --> 00:22:30,980
about those questions just go out and do

533
00:22:35,409 --> 00:22:33,080
your shopping you know the famous George

534
00:22:37,149 --> 00:22:35,419
Bush line when we're in the Iraq war you

535
00:22:40,390 --> 00:22:37,159
know don't worry about any of that just

536
00:22:42,430 --> 00:22:40,400
go out and shop you know well I'm glad

537
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:42,440
you mentioned that have nice group of

538
00:22:46,419 --> 00:22:44,090
sugar just because I would also say the

539
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:46,429
other two also they those are three of

540
00:22:50,530 --> 00:22:47,330
the nicest human

541
00:22:56,290 --> 00:22:50,540
beings you ever would meet uh as you

542
00:22:57,820 --> 00:22:56,300
know persons and so the that's very nice

543
00:22:59,710 --> 00:22:57,830
that they're so nice you know they're

544
00:23:01,570 --> 00:22:59,720
they're not going to fall off the

545
00:23:05,470 --> 00:23:01,580
pedestals you know they're lovely lovely

546
00:23:07,990 --> 00:23:05,480
people just the way it should be yes now

547
00:23:10,510 --> 00:23:08,000
listen I do feel a need to return to our

548
00:23:13,510 --> 00:23:10,520
topic of crops or just we talking about

549
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:13,520
no no you know what Alex I also want to

550
00:23:17,530 --> 00:23:15,530
tell people you mentioned my blog but

551
00:23:19,660 --> 00:23:17,540
I'm in a transition now and I'm sort of

552
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:19,670
relaunching myself to come back out as

553
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:21,410
the consciousness lady which is what I

554
00:23:26,770 --> 00:23:23,330
was before I became the crop circle

555
00:23:29,260 --> 00:23:26,780
queen so the crop circles are one track

556
00:23:32,260 --> 00:23:29,270
but I've gotten to identified with them

557
00:23:33,910 --> 00:23:32,270
as if that's my only track so I'm coming

558
00:23:36,550 --> 00:23:33,920
back out with something called doorway

559
00:23:39,730 --> 00:23:36,560
cafe and if you got on door way cafe

560
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:39,740
calm you see a site that's being put

561
00:23:44,350 --> 00:23:41,770
together we're sort of getting close

562
00:23:47,740 --> 00:23:44,360
it's not quite done yet but it's

563
00:23:49,870 --> 00:23:47,750
actually live sonos let's return to this

564
00:23:51,670 --> 00:23:49,880
topic of crop circles because it's

565
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:51,680
something that I haven't talked about

566
00:23:57,190 --> 00:23:53,650
and i have to say when we first

567
00:23:59,230 --> 00:23:57,200
connected i felt the same reservation i

568
00:24:01,330 --> 00:23:59,240
think a lot of people do about crop

569
00:24:03,370 --> 00:24:01,340
circles and it's like oh my gosh do we

570
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:03,380
really want to go there that's so new

571
00:24:07,030 --> 00:24:05,090
age ish are you going to pull out you

572
00:24:08,140 --> 00:24:07,040
know the crystals in the incense next

573
00:24:11,890 --> 00:24:08,150
not that there's anything wrong with

574
00:24:14,620 --> 00:24:11,900
crystals and incense but it is it it

575
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:14,630
does have this certain stain of new-age

576
00:24:19,750 --> 00:24:17,570
ishness that maybe shouldn't be there

577
00:24:23,410 --> 00:24:19,760
and I think definitely shouldn't be

578
00:24:26,500 --> 00:24:23,420
there after I experienced your excellent

579
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:26,510
movie so one of the things that I took

580
00:24:31,060 --> 00:24:28,970
away that really from us from my little

581
00:24:33,010 --> 00:24:31,070
skeptical perspective I'd love to dig

582
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:33,020
into and that's something you touched on

583
00:24:37,390 --> 00:24:34,850
while you were talking about the film

584
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:37,400
initially and that is the big picture

585
00:24:44,190 --> 00:24:40,730
issue here is that crop circles are

586
00:24:48,610 --> 00:24:44,200
either a hoax a complete total hoax or

587
00:24:50,500 --> 00:24:48,620
it's the most profound paradigm shifting

588
00:24:52,470 --> 00:24:50,510
and I love the way you say this in the

589
00:24:55,090 --> 00:24:52,480
movie it's really a close encounter

590
00:24:57,550 --> 00:24:55,100
experience that everyone can enjoy if

591
00:25:00,610 --> 00:24:57,560
you will you know it's really one of

592
00:25:03,220 --> 00:25:00,620
those two there can be no middle ground

593
00:25:06,310 --> 00:25:03,230
so with that I think you can then dive

594
00:25:08,850 --> 00:25:06,320
in and say okay if you're a person who

595
00:25:12,490 --> 00:25:08,860
believes that it's a hoax it's man-made

596
00:25:14,140 --> 00:25:12,500
then great go for it but realize what's

597
00:25:16,060 --> 00:25:14,150
at stake here there's really is no

598
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:16,070
middle ground is there well you're

599
00:25:19,870 --> 00:25:17,930
absolutely right and it is because of

600
00:25:22,930 --> 00:25:19,880
that I think that people are so

601
00:25:26,799 --> 00:25:22,940
skeptical it's too big it's too right

602
00:25:29,799 --> 00:25:26,809
you know way way way big it will change

603
00:25:32,590 --> 00:25:29,809
the world the last time we had a change

604
00:25:35,110 --> 00:25:32,600
of that significance was Galileo they

605
00:25:37,810 --> 00:25:35,120
put him under house arrest for without

606
00:25:39,790 --> 00:25:37,820
shocking news that earth was not the

607
00:25:41,919 --> 00:25:39,800
center of the universe Thank You

608
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:41,929
Copernicus and then Galileo really got

609
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:47,290
it you know his society's shunning him

610
00:25:53,530 --> 00:25:50,450
these are too big the mind this does not

611
00:25:55,870 --> 00:25:53,540
want to shift everything so radically

612
00:25:59,620 --> 00:25:55,880
when we change our juxtaposition to the

613
00:26:02,700 --> 00:25:59,630
universe we change our psyches I am NOT

614
00:26:06,310 --> 00:26:02,710
a historian to be able to track very

615
00:26:08,860 --> 00:26:06,320
specifically how we went from Galileo to

616
00:26:11,260 --> 00:26:08,870
hear but I know that at his time the

617
00:26:16,060 --> 00:26:11,270
world was divided into kings and serfs

618
00:26:18,090 --> 00:26:16,070
it was very top you know because we were

619
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:18,100
the center of the universe it had

620
00:26:23,740 --> 00:26:20,570
correspondent to earth being center of

621
00:26:25,900 --> 00:26:23,750
the universe we were top dog and then

622
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:25,910
somehow or other in the course of

623
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:28,970
putting ourselves into the proper

624
00:26:34,330 --> 00:26:31,010
juxtaposition in the universe where

625
00:26:36,370 --> 00:26:34,340
we're not so significant we ended up

626
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:36,380
with democracy here and I know if I were

627
00:26:41,950 --> 00:26:39,250
historian I could track that whole

628
00:26:44,860 --> 00:26:41,960
evolution of thought but it has to do

629
00:26:46,780 --> 00:26:44,870
with the shift of psyche and the psyche

630
00:26:48,910 --> 00:26:46,790
would shift again if we were not the

631
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:48,920
only intelligence not in science fiction

632
00:26:54,310 --> 00:26:52,250
but in actuality if we knew that there

633
00:26:57,490 --> 00:26:54,320
was other intelligence contacting us

634
00:27:00,330 --> 00:26:57,500
which the circles do indicate we would

635
00:27:03,490 --> 00:27:00,340
not be top dog again another another

636
00:27:05,710 --> 00:27:03,500
demotion from from top dog and look

637
00:27:07,780 --> 00:27:05,720
where we are now look at how arrogant we

638
00:27:09,850 --> 00:27:07,790
are look at how we abuse the earth look

639
00:27:12,310 --> 00:27:09,860
at how we make our violent with one

640
00:27:14,390 --> 00:27:12,320
another we need that we can use that

641
00:27:17,120 --> 00:27:14,400
democratization again

642
00:27:20,360 --> 00:27:17,130
another layer of it where we care about

643
00:27:23,090 --> 00:27:20,370
each other we're we're one world and you

644
00:27:25,130 --> 00:27:23,100
know if if indeed you can just see the

645
00:27:27,110 --> 00:27:25,140
the kind of player that as would play

646
00:27:31,370 --> 00:27:27,120
out aside from the psychological effect

647
00:27:33,620 --> 00:27:31,380
if if it were announced by the powers

648
00:27:38,350 --> 00:27:33,630
that be if headlines all over the world

649
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:38,360
were uh we have a we are not alone uh-uh

650
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:41,730
contact in in you know the way in which

651
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:43,890
we've established we're not alone that's

652
00:27:47,750 --> 00:27:46,290
contact of sorts so contact with Ian

653
00:27:50,060 --> 00:27:47,760
headlines all over the world all of a

654
00:27:51,620 --> 00:27:50,070
sudden the whole world is in one

655
00:27:54,020 --> 00:27:51,630
conversation it's the most fascinating

656
00:27:56,360 --> 00:27:54,030
thing that's ever happened it won't go

657
00:27:58,640 --> 00:27:56,370
away it's not today's new cycle it'll be

658
00:28:01,790 --> 00:27:58,650
with us forever we're talking to each

659
00:28:04,820 --> 00:28:01,800
other we are equalized here on earth as

660
00:28:06,530 --> 00:28:04,830
one humanity dealing with the other so

661
00:28:09,110 --> 00:28:06,540
you know you can just see it play out in

662
00:28:11,270 --> 00:28:09,120
mind's eye how good that would be for it

663
00:28:13,250 --> 00:28:11,280
well maybe right I mean I'm with you

664
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:13,260
right up until the end because we don't

665
00:28:18,260 --> 00:28:16,650
know what the consequences would be of

666
00:28:19,430 --> 00:28:18,270
that and there's also another part

667
00:28:23,030 --> 00:28:19,440
there's a couple of different parts that

668
00:28:25,910 --> 00:28:23,040
I pull out of that one is that I think

669
00:28:28,790 --> 00:28:25,920
it's interesting to you know really dig

670
00:28:31,850 --> 00:28:28,800
in to explore what that means when we

671
00:28:34,670 --> 00:28:31,860
say this would be paradigm shifting this

672
00:28:37,130 --> 00:28:34,680
would change everything and then look at

673
00:28:39,740 --> 00:28:37,140
that relative to how people deal with

674
00:28:41,900 --> 00:28:39,750
this topic and I'm guilty of it as well

675
00:28:43,340 --> 00:28:41,910
as I just admit it and I guess what I'm

676
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:43,350
getting at is something that I've

677
00:28:48,050 --> 00:28:45,210
experienced over and over again and

678
00:28:51,340 --> 00:28:48,060
that's that I think people have an

679
00:28:54,170 --> 00:28:51,350
intuitive knowing and an intuitive

680
00:28:56,930 --> 00:28:54,180
protection mechanism that doesn't allow

681
00:28:59,000 --> 00:28:56,940
them to go to these topics because they

682
00:29:01,640 --> 00:28:59,010
do realize what they mean without even

683
00:29:04,370 --> 00:29:01,650
realizing it I think people turn away

684
00:29:07,070 --> 00:29:04,380
from the crop circle thing laughs it off

685
00:29:09,830 --> 00:29:07,080
do I love the quote from John Mack in

686
00:29:12,230 --> 00:29:09,840
your movie where he says hey the worst

687
00:29:15,110 --> 00:29:12,240
thing especially for an American in

688
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:15,120
American male I can say is to be duped

689
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:18,570
to be conned and there's that resistance

690
00:29:23,030 --> 00:29:20,490
like I don't want to be conned but

691
00:29:25,820 --> 00:29:23,040
there's also this element of I don't

692
00:29:26,710 --> 00:29:25,830
want to go there because somewhere in my

693
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:26,720
head at

694
00:29:32,590 --> 00:29:30,530
some level I realize the impact that

695
00:29:34,180 --> 00:29:32,600
this will have I've seen the same thing

696
00:29:37,539 --> 00:29:34,190
with religious folks you know when you

697
00:29:40,990 --> 00:29:37,549
start really pulling apart Christianity

698
00:29:44,770 --> 00:29:41,000
or anything any religion and you start

699
00:29:47,380 --> 00:29:44,780
pointing out just the ridiculousness of

700
00:29:49,390 --> 00:29:47,390
some of the historical evidence then

701
00:29:51,220 --> 00:29:49,400
there's just this I don't want to go

702
00:29:53,590 --> 00:29:51,230
there because I've already thought

703
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:53,600
through the chain of events and where

704
00:29:58,330 --> 00:29:55,490
that would lead along the same lines

705
00:30:00,880 --> 00:29:58,340
what you're talking about so I wonder if

706
00:30:05,020 --> 00:30:00,890
you have any thoughts about these two

707
00:30:08,260 --> 00:30:05,030
worlds that we live in the world of what

708
00:30:10,450 --> 00:30:08,270
could be and what we do know is the

709
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:10,460
potential for change in the potential

710
00:30:16,149 --> 00:30:13,490
for radical paradigm shift and how we

711
00:30:19,690 --> 00:30:16,159
balance that with the comfort and

712
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:19,700
security we have that hey everything is

713
00:30:24,909 --> 00:30:22,850
going to be okay you know my life as you

714
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:24,919
talk about in your life story and your

715
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:27,770
kind of very domestic ordinary life and

716
00:30:31,510 --> 00:30:29,330
then you know what it took for you to

717
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:31,520
break out of that I think there's a

718
00:30:37,659 --> 00:30:34,490
parallel there that most people reach

719
00:30:40,270 --> 00:30:37,669
that same point that this crop circle

720
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:40,280
phenomena is you too and then they turn

721
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:43,370
bank oh no no that's okay let me go back

722
00:30:48,130 --> 00:30:45,770
to kind of my normal life do you have

723
00:30:50,470 --> 00:30:48,140
any thoughts on that well I think you

724
00:30:52,810 --> 00:30:50,480
said it all is absolutely right it's too

725
00:30:54,610 --> 00:30:52,820
radical and you know with this a very

726
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:54,620
complex world we're living in there's a

727
00:30:58,620 --> 00:30:56,690
lot of gears that are mesh to have it

728
00:31:01,360 --> 00:30:58,630
working the way it's working yes

729
00:31:03,299 --> 00:31:01,370
including a power structure this I was

730
00:31:07,810 --> 00:31:03,309
pretty happy to have it working that way

731
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:07,820
insists demands can only operate if it

732
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:10,010
works that way and that's one of the

733
00:31:13,060 --> 00:31:11,450
things that I wanted to pick on I'm

734
00:31:15,970 --> 00:31:13,070
sorry to jump in there but it's it's

735
00:31:18,580 --> 00:31:15,980
such an important point to me and that's

736
00:31:22,180 --> 00:31:18,590
that when we look for governments to

737
00:31:25,029 --> 00:31:22,190
make a proclamation of disclosure on

738
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:25,039
UFOs when we look for governments to

739
00:31:30,279 --> 00:31:27,890
resolve the ridiculous science versus

740
00:31:33,100 --> 00:31:30,289
religion thing or even we look for

741
00:31:35,409 --> 00:31:33,110
governments to step in and say in some

742
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:35,419
way that you know this materialistic

743
00:31:40,270 --> 00:31:37,850
paradigm that says we can just go and

744
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:40,280
consume and due to no end that

745
00:31:45,070 --> 00:31:41,810
that really has to come to an end if

746
00:31:47,050 --> 00:31:45,080
we're expecting that we're expecting the

747
00:31:50,950 --> 00:31:47,060
machine to turn around and eat itself

748
00:31:53,590 --> 00:31:50,960
because the only way this culture this

749
00:31:56,140 --> 00:31:53,600
machine that we've built can go forward

750
00:31:59,320 --> 00:31:56,150
is in the way that it's going forward

751
00:32:02,170 --> 00:31:59,330
that's my opinion I don't look for the

752
00:32:05,610 --> 00:32:02,180
big change the big transformation the

753
00:32:08,470 --> 00:32:05,620
gears like you said are too intricately

754
00:32:10,690 --> 00:32:08,480
engineered to operate within each other

755
00:32:13,690 --> 00:32:10,700
and there's too many people who love the

756
00:32:16,030 --> 00:32:13,700
game just the way it is to really expect

757
00:32:19,390 --> 00:32:16,040
this to change well I would make a

758
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:19,400
couple of comments about that one would

759
00:32:27,150 --> 00:32:22,610
be that you know you're absolutely right

760
00:32:30,850 --> 00:32:27,160
that things would be really radically

761
00:32:33,580 --> 00:32:30,860
disrupted the psyche but you resist that

762
00:32:35,740 --> 00:32:33,590
we're just not ready to to make those

763
00:32:38,230 --> 00:32:35,750
leaps they're too big but the other

764
00:32:40,900 --> 00:32:38,240
thing is that look at the state we're in

765
00:32:43,450 --> 00:32:40,910
you know we're not in Ozzie and Harriet

766
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:43,460
land everyone knows that we're in deep

767
00:32:48,610 --> 00:32:46,010
trouble and so when the crop circles

768
00:32:50,980 --> 00:32:48,620
came along in my reality where I was

769
00:32:54,550 --> 00:32:50,990
interested in this shift and how it

770
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:54,560
might come about at the same time as we

771
00:32:59,200 --> 00:32:56,690
resist the radical change we need that

772
00:33:03,370 --> 00:32:59,210
radical change we need something that

773
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:03,380
jars this gear mechanism that's so

774
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:06,650
tightly meshed little things don't you

775
00:33:12,790 --> 00:33:10,010
know its fingers in the dike but we need

776
00:33:15,340 --> 00:33:12,800
something to really make us think again

777
00:33:17,530 --> 00:33:15,350
about everything and you know the circle

778
00:33:20,830 --> 00:33:17,540
the crop circles could do that we're so

779
00:33:22,630 --> 00:33:20,840
really a foolish not to be curious about

780
00:33:27,910 --> 00:33:22,640
them because they could be so helpful to

781
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:27,920
us but um uh at least we do know that we

782
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:32,330
we are not in a smooth times you know

783
00:33:37,450 --> 00:33:34,730
that we are hitting a wall that there's

784
00:33:40,510 --> 00:33:37,460
talk about humanity destroying itself I

785
00:33:44,050 --> 00:33:40,520
mean boy that's sort of new on the table

786
00:33:46,900 --> 00:33:44,060
and in the face of that my goodness

787
00:33:48,220 --> 00:33:46,910
let's look to all of these radical

788
00:33:51,550 --> 00:33:48,230
possibilities i'm going to have

789
00:33:54,130 --> 00:33:51,560
something on my website on doorway cafe

790
00:33:57,460 --> 00:33:54,140
that's going to be thinking outside

791
00:34:00,370 --> 00:33:57,470
box and I I've primed it with a few of

792
00:34:03,130 --> 00:34:00,380
my thoughts about what radical things

793
00:34:06,910 --> 00:34:03,140
might happen to upper end everything and

794
00:34:09,490 --> 00:34:06,920
I'm gonna in I'm inviting uh submissions

795
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:09,500
for other people's ideas about what

796
00:34:13,540 --> 00:34:11,210
those things we should be talking that

797
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:13,550
way that's the kind of talk we should be

798
00:34:18,820 --> 00:34:16,370
engaging in mm-hmm yes yes I agree and

799
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:18,830
you know at the same time oh yeah we

800
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:20,210
this is such a wonderful conversation

801
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:23,450
and it could be so far flung I guess

802
00:34:27,070 --> 00:34:25,010
that I always feel I need to kind of

803
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:27,080
pull it back because I did have to tell

804
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:29,450
you my again returned to my experience

805
00:34:34,330 --> 00:34:31,850
in watching your film was one of just a

806
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:34,340
lot of new information and I almost a

807
00:34:39,340 --> 00:34:35,810
little bit embarrassed like gee why

808
00:34:41,710 --> 00:34:39,350
don't I know more about this when your

809
00:34:45,460 --> 00:34:41,720
media has not been kind to you Alex you

810
00:34:47,710 --> 00:34:45,470
know the media does not bring you the

811
00:34:49,630 --> 00:34:47,720
latest news from the front of crop

812
00:34:51,730 --> 00:34:49,640
circle they're very cynical and very

813
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:51,740
skeptical and mostly they ignore them

814
00:34:57,130 --> 00:34:54,130
but when they do you know do something

815
00:34:59,200 --> 00:34:57,140
it's always with that sort of sly wink

816
00:35:01,360 --> 00:34:59,210
you know of ha ha ha you know and the

817
00:35:04,270 --> 00:35:01,370
other part of it is that even though I

818
00:35:07,300 --> 00:35:04,280
was aware of some of the information

819
00:35:08,980 --> 00:35:07,310
that you provided in the film about some

820
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:08,990
of those scientific evidence about the

821
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:12,170
bending of the crops and some of the

822
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:14,450
ideas about the scope and some of the

823
00:35:18,820 --> 00:35:16,490
ideas about debunking the debunkers I

824
00:35:21,820 --> 00:35:18,830
think what your film does for anyone who

825
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:21,830
hasn't done a comprehensive review of

826
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:24,890
this phenomena is it lays it out in a

827
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:27,290
very systematic way that someone can go

828
00:35:31,450 --> 00:35:29,210
through it and I want to bring a little

829
00:35:33,790 --> 00:35:31,460
bit of that to our audience so that they

830
00:35:36,460 --> 00:35:33,800
can have some of that and let's return

831
00:35:38,890 --> 00:35:36,470
to this idea that we both felt

832
00:35:41,650 --> 00:35:38,900
comfortable with is that the big picture

833
00:35:44,770 --> 00:35:41,660
here is that folks this is either a hoax

834
00:35:47,470 --> 00:35:44,780
or it is an enormously important

835
00:35:49,930 --> 00:35:47,480
paradigm shifting close encounter

836
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:49,940
there's no other way to explain it we

837
00:35:55,030 --> 00:35:52,370
have this phenomena that you can reach

838
00:35:57,550 --> 00:35:55,040
out and touch in these fields and it's

839
00:35:59,890 --> 00:35:57,560
happening at a scale that we can explain

840
00:36:02,380 --> 00:35:59,900
so we either have to explain it in

841
00:36:04,770 --> 00:36:02,390
conventional means or we have to jump

842
00:36:07,700 --> 00:36:04,780
over the other side and say this is

843
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:07,710
totally beyond our ability to explain it

844
00:36:13,849 --> 00:36:10,890
so let's debunk the debunkers lay out

845
00:36:16,730 --> 00:36:13,859
what they have to overcome the evidence

846
00:36:19,010 --> 00:36:16,740
that they have to overcome in order to

847
00:36:21,260 --> 00:36:19,020
advance their theory and their theory

848
00:36:25,359 --> 00:36:21,270
again let's be clear is that each and

849
00:36:28,370 --> 00:36:25,369
every crop circle formation throughout

850
00:36:30,020 --> 00:36:28,380
time that they've been recorded every

851
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:30,030
one of those is a hoax right that's how

852
00:36:34,310 --> 00:36:31,770
that's the burden of proof that they

853
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:34,320
have if there any who are not urses we

854
00:36:39,050 --> 00:36:36,690
suspect that are not then that theory

855
00:36:41,240 --> 00:36:39,060
has to kind of fall away so let me pick

856
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:41,250
this one pace out of the film that I

857
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:43,530
thought was quite extraordinary and

858
00:36:49,700 --> 00:36:46,410
quite new to me and before I dive into

859
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:49,710
it tell us about the journal nature the

860
00:36:54,950 --> 00:36:51,690
scientific journal nature and the

861
00:36:57,589 --> 00:36:54,960
publication in 1880 and what it

862
00:36:59,810 --> 00:36:57,599
contained every hundred years or so in

863
00:37:02,870 --> 00:36:59,820
the media of the day whatever it was

864
00:37:07,579 --> 00:37:02,880
starting in 1678 with the first time in

865
00:37:09,470 --> 00:37:07,589
a woodcut in a pamphlet we had a picture

866
00:37:11,150 --> 00:37:09,480
of a crop circle a little story we

867
00:37:13,849 --> 00:37:11,160
always date what was the first time you

868
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:13,859
ever saw crop circle referred to and

869
00:37:19,370 --> 00:37:16,890
it's just a little 1678 woods had a few

870
00:37:21,349 --> 00:37:19,380
it's called the mowing devil it's come

871
00:37:23,540 --> 00:37:21,359
to be called and it's all over the net

872
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:23,550
if you want to look it up so the 1891

873
00:37:31,550 --> 00:37:29,010
where a scientist was in a field in

874
00:37:34,220 --> 00:37:31,560
england and he's reporting out circles

875
00:37:37,089 --> 00:37:34,230
everywhere since i say the evidence is

876
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:37,099
look is in favor of it being a mystery

877
00:37:41,930 --> 00:37:39,810
even though it's counterintuitive you

878
00:37:44,240 --> 00:37:41,940
think oh no that's too big well wait a

879
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:44,250
minute sorry about that it is the

880
00:37:47,150 --> 00:37:45,330
evidence does point in that direction

881
00:37:51,109 --> 00:37:47,160
that's one of the reasons I returned I

882
00:37:53,900 --> 00:37:51,119
take people back to his 1880 publication

883
00:37:56,810 --> 00:37:53,910
in nature because besides the the date

884
00:38:00,410 --> 00:37:56,820
which is stunning for most folks like me

885
00:38:03,859 --> 00:38:00,420
who've whether we want to or not have

886
00:38:07,010 --> 00:38:03,869
been susceptible to the the skeptical

887
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:07,020
hoax or kind of idea if you're going to

888
00:38:11,780 --> 00:38:09,930
explain this as a human phenomena as a

889
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:11,790
hoax then you have to go back and

890
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:14,570
explain for example this this

891
00:38:20,109 --> 00:38:17,970
observation by j.r and Cameron this guy

892
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:20,119
in England who was a well-known

893
00:38:23,930 --> 00:38:21,570
scientist

894
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:23,940
what I found striking is he's in very

895
00:38:29,900 --> 00:38:27,690
detailed terms talks about the phenomena

896
00:38:32,510 --> 00:38:29,910
in some of the same ways that you've

897
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:32,520
investigated it that investigated it and

898
00:38:37,190 --> 00:38:34,410
tell people about in the movie that this

899
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:37,200
is clearly not a man-made phenomena

900
00:38:43,580 --> 00:38:39,450
because the way the wheat in this case

901
00:38:45,620 --> 00:38:43,590
is laid down and placed in this kind of

902
00:38:47,870 --> 00:38:45,630
pattern like it's just pushed down and

903
00:38:50,450 --> 00:38:47,880
it's not broken and it swirls around and

904
00:38:53,180 --> 00:38:50,460
hear this guy in 1880 he's describing

905
00:38:55,370 --> 00:38:53,190
exactly the kind of phenomena that you

906
00:38:57,830 --> 00:38:55,380
described in the movie and how people

907
00:39:00,500 --> 00:38:57,840
can tell almost at first sight whether

908
00:39:02,870 --> 00:39:00,510
this was a man-made crop circle or

909
00:39:05,510 --> 00:39:02,880
whether it couldn't be explained in

910
00:39:09,430 --> 00:39:05,520
those kind of conventional terms but

911
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:09,440
i'll tell you alex also in recent years

912
00:39:15,140 --> 00:39:12,930
earlier on in our modern phenomenon you

913
00:39:18,100 --> 00:39:15,150
know you could indeed look and say oh no

914
00:39:21,770 --> 00:39:18,110
that's a sloppy mess that that's hoax

915
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:21,780
they if you you asked one of the

916
00:39:25,940 --> 00:39:23,850
original hoaxers or what about geometry

917
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:25,950
which the circles are brilliant at and

918
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:29,130
they said what what's that you know so

919
00:39:34,970 --> 00:39:31,170
so they were just laying down you know

920
00:39:36,850 --> 00:39:34,980
sloppy patterns but I over the years the

921
00:39:39,590 --> 00:39:36,860
hoaxers have gotten much better at

922
00:39:42,710 --> 00:39:39,600
flattening crop they've gotten good

923
00:39:45,340 --> 00:39:42,720
geometers the shapes are good so you

924
00:39:48,530 --> 00:39:45,350
have to look to look beyond the obvious

925
00:39:50,090 --> 00:39:48,540
the most obvious to ascertain whether

926
00:39:52,820 --> 00:39:50,100
you whether you're dealing with a real

927
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:52,830
one or not but again Susannah I'd look

928
00:39:58,940 --> 00:39:54,930
at it from a historical perspective okay

929
00:40:03,620 --> 00:39:58,950
great the hoaxers have evolved why we

930
00:40:06,500 --> 00:40:03,630
then say that in 1880 the hoaxers had

931
00:40:08,390 --> 00:40:06,510
evolved to this extent that doesn't fit

932
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:08,400
that doesn't make a lot of sense and

933
00:40:12,350 --> 00:40:10,530
again also an author doesn't make sense

934
00:40:14,270 --> 00:40:12,360
that you know your cell phone stopped

935
00:40:16,310 --> 00:40:14,280
working and your batteries that we're

936
00:40:18,140 --> 00:40:16,320
fully charged are drained inside a

937
00:40:21,590 --> 00:40:18,150
circle I mean you've got ya tell us

938
00:40:23,210 --> 00:40:21,600
about the physical electrical effects

939
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:23,220
that have been observed by some people

940
00:40:27,830 --> 00:40:26,490
who are well qualified to to see whether

941
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:27,840
that's really happening and that's a

942
00:40:30,860 --> 00:40:29,490
pretty easy observation to make but

943
00:40:32,990 --> 00:40:30,870
particularly for someone who has a

944
00:40:35,060 --> 00:40:33,000
little bit of skill and electronics they

945
00:40:35,660 --> 00:40:35,070
can say wow you know I walked inside the

946
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:35,670
circle and

947
00:40:40,099 --> 00:40:37,530
camera went dead i walked outside of it

948
00:40:41,780 --> 00:40:40,109
the camera came alive same with my cell

949
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:41,790
phone there's there's a lot of that

950
00:40:46,490 --> 00:40:44,010
going on isn't there except well the

951
00:40:48,799 --> 00:40:46,500
batteries don't recharge but the cell

952
00:40:51,770 --> 00:40:48,809
phone will not work in a circle not

953
00:40:53,569 --> 00:40:51,780
always but you know enough enough and

954
00:40:55,339 --> 00:40:53,579
then you hold it out over the edge of

955
00:40:57,049 --> 00:40:55,349
the where the standing crop is and the

956
00:40:59,510 --> 00:40:57,059
roots in the field it'll it'll it'll be

957
00:41:02,299 --> 00:40:59,520
working the batteries that drain and the

958
00:41:04,940 --> 00:41:02,309
cameras don't come back we have one

959
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:04,950
story we tell in the movie of a camera

960
00:41:10,430 --> 00:41:07,890
crew from television that came back to

961
00:41:12,170 --> 00:41:10,440
the studio and this was earlier on when

962
00:41:15,170 --> 00:41:12,180
they were shooting film and they had

963
00:41:17,030 --> 00:41:15,180
nothing on the film white light so

964
00:41:19,730 --> 00:41:17,040
there's so much of that electromagnetic

965
00:41:22,250 --> 00:41:19,740
interference going on in the circles

966
00:41:24,079 --> 00:41:22,260
that you know something's going on

967
00:41:26,750 --> 00:41:24,089
there's some kind of energy in there

968
00:41:28,609 --> 00:41:26,760
that you can account for in any of the

969
00:41:31,940 --> 00:41:28,619
terms that we understand how science

970
00:41:33,559 --> 00:41:31,950
works so you have the kind of things

971
00:41:36,109 --> 00:41:33,569
that happen inside the circles

972
00:41:38,630 --> 00:41:36,119
themselves including things like braided

973
00:41:40,970 --> 00:41:38,640
of crop it's not just laid down in

974
00:41:44,270 --> 00:41:40,980
summit in some instances it's very

975
00:41:45,980 --> 00:41:44,280
intricately braided I mean what you're

976
00:41:47,420 --> 00:41:45,990
going to have the lever sitting on the

977
00:41:49,670 --> 00:41:47,430
ground there in the four hours of

978
00:41:51,980 --> 00:41:49,680
English darkness braiding the crop I

979
00:41:54,349 --> 00:41:51,990
don't think so so you have the things

980
00:41:57,319 --> 00:41:54,359
that are the physical evidence or

981
00:41:58,700 --> 00:41:57,329
physical anomalies in the circles and

982
00:42:02,079 --> 00:41:58,710
then you've got what happens and you

983
00:42:05,900 --> 00:42:02,089
know the results of laboratory analysis

984
00:42:09,230 --> 00:42:05,910
it was a stunning a lab worker that was

985
00:42:10,819 --> 00:42:09,240
done on the soil inside a crop circle

986
00:42:12,620 --> 00:42:10,829
where they ascertained that the

987
00:42:15,349 --> 00:42:12,630
crystalline structure or one of the

988
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:15,359
elements in the soil does not occur on

989
00:42:20,059 --> 00:42:17,970
earth on the surface soil and in fact

990
00:42:24,470 --> 00:42:20,069
that you could expect that crystalline

991
00:42:27,559 --> 00:42:24,480
structure to be hundreds of miles way

992
00:42:29,210 --> 00:42:27,569
down deep beneath the crust where the

993
00:42:31,130 --> 00:42:29,220
pressure from the top and the heat from

994
00:42:32,870 --> 00:42:31,140
the bottom had cooked it for millions of

995
00:42:34,910 --> 00:42:32,880
years and you would expect that kind of

996
00:42:37,700 --> 00:42:34,920
crystalline structure and there it was

997
00:42:39,799 --> 00:42:37,710
on the surface soil inside a crop circle

998
00:42:42,140 --> 00:42:39,809
so you know you look at stuff like that

999
00:42:45,500 --> 00:42:42,150
you go wait a minute this is beyond

1000
00:42:47,329 --> 00:42:45,510
anecdotal or somebody's particular story

1001
00:42:49,339 --> 00:42:47,339
one of the reasons I I was never

1002
00:42:51,259 --> 00:42:49,349
particularly a UFO I wasn't us

1003
00:42:54,170 --> 00:42:51,269
person any more than you know the next

1004
00:42:56,599 --> 00:42:54,180
guy in the diner uh because it was so

1005
00:42:59,569 --> 00:42:56,609
ephemeral you know somebody would say I

1006
00:43:01,729 --> 00:42:59,579
saw and then well where is it you know

1007
00:43:03,829 --> 00:43:01,739
who knows did they didn't think but the

1008
00:43:06,589 --> 00:43:03,839
circles are there they stay there until

1009
00:43:09,739 --> 00:43:06,599
the crop is harvested you can examine

1010
00:43:12,410 --> 00:43:09,749
the material you can have you know

1011
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:12,420
actual physical evidence and so that's

1012
00:43:19,370 --> 00:43:16,650
why it intrigued me so much where where

1013
00:43:23,059 --> 00:43:19,380
the UFOs never attracted me you know as

1014
00:43:25,549 --> 00:43:23,069
as a field of study or uh something to

1015
00:43:27,140 --> 00:43:25,559
you know spread the word about uh but

1016
00:43:29,690 --> 00:43:27,150
the circles were different the circles

1017
00:43:31,609 --> 00:43:29,700
we actually could could get to proof you

1018
00:43:35,809 --> 00:43:31,619
know but now what we need is attention

1019
00:43:37,249 --> 00:43:35,819
uh proof proof is one thing but if any

1020
00:43:39,410 --> 00:43:37,259
people have to know that the proof

1021
00:43:42,890 --> 00:43:39,420
exists and of course that's why I made

1022
00:43:46,339 --> 00:43:42,900
these movies yes yes excellent I just

1023
00:43:48,289 --> 00:43:46,349
want to touch on one more aspect of the

1024
00:43:50,690 --> 00:43:48,299
proof that I pulled out from the movie

1025
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:50,700
that really struck me and I just want

1026
00:43:56,630 --> 00:43:52,650
people to be aware of and that's the

1027
00:43:58,940 --> 00:43:56,640
overall scale of this so again if you

1028
00:44:00,680 --> 00:43:58,950
want to advance the hoax or theory that

1029
00:44:04,759 --> 00:44:00,690
each and every one of these are a hoax

1030
00:44:09,259 --> 00:44:04,769
you also have to account for one that

1031
00:44:12,170 --> 00:44:09,269
the scale of these complex creations so

1032
00:44:14,569 --> 00:44:12,180
anyone who goes online and looks at

1033
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:14,579
photography or watches again the

1034
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:17,249
excellent cinematography in your movie

1035
00:44:20,839 --> 00:44:18,690
and that they're just stunningly

1036
00:44:24,650 --> 00:44:20,849
beautiful crop circles that are in it

1037
00:44:29,089 --> 00:44:24,660
you have to explain how like in one

1038
00:44:32,959 --> 00:44:29,099
instance 35 of these could be created

1039
00:44:37,370 --> 00:44:32,969
overnight in South England I mean you're

1040
00:44:40,430 --> 00:44:37,380
talking about an army of people an army

1041
00:44:43,700 --> 00:44:40,440
of well-organized hoaxers that have

1042
00:44:47,839 --> 00:44:43,710
incredibly advanced knowledge of

1043
00:44:50,079 --> 00:44:47,849
geometry of artistry and are so

1044
00:44:52,969 --> 00:44:50,089
committed to this and yet remain

1045
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:52,979
completely anonymous because think about

1046
00:44:58,069 --> 00:44:54,930
that how many people would it take to

1047
00:45:01,170 --> 00:44:58,079
create 35 crop circles and how to keep

1048
00:45:04,049 --> 00:45:01,180
them all silent about doing it

1049
00:45:06,569 --> 00:45:04,059
well all do all perfect questions and

1050
00:45:10,829 --> 00:45:06,579
look at the biggest one ever which was

1051
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:10,839
in 2001 it's the size of now you have to

1052
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:14,770
picture two football fields there are

1053
00:45:19,770 --> 00:45:17,170
four hundred and nine separate circles

1054
00:45:21,569 --> 00:45:19,780
many of the crop circles are composed of

1055
00:45:25,549 --> 00:45:21,579
other kind of shapes as well this one

1056
00:45:28,890 --> 00:45:25,559
happened to be all circles in a very

1057
00:45:32,609 --> 00:45:28,900
sophisticated geometric pattern no

1058
00:45:34,410 --> 00:45:32,619
mistakes everything so you think an army

1059
00:45:37,650 --> 00:45:34,420
would have just for that particular

1060
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:37,660
formation it would have taken an army to

1061
00:45:43,230 --> 00:45:41,650
do presuming they could've and you know

1062
00:45:46,020 --> 00:45:43,240
you're talking about four or five hours

1063
00:45:48,720 --> 00:45:46,030
of darkness at night because they'll be

1064
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:48,730
seen in the fields if they're doing it

1065
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:51,130
in the daytime well it boggles the mind

1066
00:45:56,460 --> 00:45:53,410
you know it just boggles the mind you

1067
00:46:00,059 --> 00:45:56,470
can't what you can't you know that

1068
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:00,069
cannot be so even though the mind wants

1069
00:46:06,660 --> 00:46:02,170
to say I all people when you look at the

1070
00:46:09,569 --> 00:46:06,670
evidence uh it's more clearly in favor

1071
00:46:11,190 --> 00:46:09,579
of the fact that there's a mystery over

1072
00:46:17,549 --> 00:46:11,200
the fact that people may you cannot

1073
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:17,559
explain this away yes okay um enough on

1074
00:46:21,930 --> 00:46:20,290
the on the hoaxes but actually I don't

1075
00:46:24,260 --> 00:46:21,940
think we can even spend enough time but

1076
00:46:26,579 --> 00:46:24,270
maybe we have for this interview because

1077
00:46:29,270 --> 00:46:26,589
again we just have to hammer this home

1078
00:46:32,130 --> 00:46:29,280
again and again is that the phenomenon

1079
00:46:36,359 --> 00:46:32,140
demands an explanation in one of two

1080
00:46:38,490 --> 00:46:36,369
ways man-made hoaxing or paradigm

1081
00:46:40,500 --> 00:46:38,500
shifting close encounter there's nothing

1082
00:46:41,940 --> 00:46:40,510
in between here folks and just keep

1083
00:46:44,430 --> 00:46:41,950
drilling that over and over again and

1084
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:44,440
then ask all these questions of how you

1085
00:46:49,620 --> 00:46:47,410
approve it to be a hoax and then ask the

1086
00:46:53,609 --> 00:46:49,630
next layer of questions that we were

1087
00:46:56,579 --> 00:46:53,619
getting into before which is one what is

1088
00:47:00,859 --> 00:46:56,589
this then what does this really say why

1089
00:47:03,359 --> 00:47:00,869
are these being created by this other

1090
00:47:05,670 --> 00:47:03,369
consciousness this other intelligence

1091
00:47:07,230 --> 00:47:05,680
that's out there and you spend a good

1092
00:47:10,049 --> 00:47:07,240
deal of time in the movie Suzanne

1093
00:47:12,359 --> 00:47:10,059
talking about the why question and not

1094
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:12,369
totally synced up with you on all the

1095
00:47:15,599 --> 00:47:13,930
ideas you have but

1096
00:47:20,250 --> 00:47:15,609
let's spend some time talking about this

1097
00:47:22,049 --> 00:47:20,260
why are the crop circles there well of

1098
00:47:25,470 --> 00:47:22,059
course you're now in pure speculation

1099
00:47:27,270 --> 00:47:25,480
because nobody's telling us whatever is

1100
00:47:29,730 --> 00:47:27,280
delivering them it's not giving us the

1101
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:29,740
explanation for why or where they come

1102
00:47:35,940 --> 00:47:32,050
from or you know and it's not

1103
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:35,950
necessarily extraterrestrial maybe it's

1104
00:47:39,180 --> 00:47:37,930
another dimension I mean who's we just

1105
00:47:41,069 --> 00:47:39,190
don't know we've never identified

1106
00:47:44,010 --> 00:47:41,079
anything that can function like us other

1107
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:44,020
than us and who knows you know what

1108
00:47:52,430 --> 00:47:46,450
where it is coming from as I say all you

1109
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:52,440
can do is say not us and why well we're

1110
00:47:58,559 --> 00:47:55,170
speculation so you'll hear this is mine

1111
00:48:03,180 --> 00:47:58,569
mine is first of all some kind of

1112
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:03,190
underlying Star Trek idea that you can't

1113
00:48:09,299 --> 00:48:07,450
get into feared with by other entities

1114
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:09,309
in the universe that come along and save

1115
00:48:17,940 --> 00:48:11,170
you that that's not the nature of

1116
00:48:22,380 --> 00:48:17,950
reality but the the my speculation is

1117
00:48:25,410 --> 00:48:22,390
that we're being helped at we're being

1118
00:48:28,079 --> 00:48:25,420
helped by evidence that there is other

1119
00:48:30,599 --> 00:48:28,089
pneus and that that's all we need we

1120
00:48:34,130 --> 00:48:30,609
don't because you know each formation

1121
00:48:36,599 --> 00:48:34,140
actually many of them the good ones have

1122
00:48:37,980 --> 00:48:36,609
information encoded in them you can get

1123
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:37,990
formulas out of them you can get

1124
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:39,970
geometric relationships out of them you

1125
00:48:44,579 --> 00:48:41,650
can get events on Earth's that they're

1126
00:48:46,289 --> 00:48:44,589
pointing to out of them and people say

1127
00:48:48,420 --> 00:48:46,299
what's the message what's the message as

1128
00:48:49,799 --> 00:48:48,430
if something they did to jigsaw puzzle

1129
00:48:52,049 --> 00:48:49,809
and would put them all together and

1130
00:48:54,390 --> 00:48:52,059
we'll get or hieroglyphs if we can

1131
00:48:56,700 --> 00:48:54,400
translate them I don't think so I think

1132
00:48:58,650 --> 00:48:56,710
we're being bombarded with evidence that

1133
00:49:00,599 --> 00:48:58,660
there is other pneus and that's all we

1134
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:00,609
need we don't need them to tell us what

1135
00:49:06,299 --> 00:49:02,890
to do or you know give us any specific

1136
00:49:09,240 --> 00:49:06,309
instruction or well although who knows

1137
00:49:11,609 --> 00:49:09,250
if we were really accepting the fact

1138
00:49:13,140 --> 00:49:11,619
that there was other intelligence we

1139
00:49:14,609 --> 00:49:13,150
were open to it who knows what they

1140
00:49:16,410 --> 00:49:14,619
could do to help us they're obviously

1141
00:49:18,030 --> 00:49:16,420
more advanced than we are because

1142
00:49:20,730 --> 00:49:18,040
they're visiting us we're not visiting

1143
00:49:24,569 --> 00:49:20,740
them but just the fact of their being

1144
00:49:26,250 --> 00:49:24,579
and other nosotro to us at a time in

1145
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:26,260
history when we're getting worse and

1146
00:49:30,510 --> 00:49:27,970
worse at managing our world

1147
00:49:34,349 --> 00:49:30,520
when we need you know some radical new

1148
00:49:38,339 --> 00:49:34,359
new new premises and I think that this

1149
00:49:40,530 --> 00:49:38,349
is a just a steady bombardment not two

1150
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:40,540
radicals that you know people are going

1151
00:49:45,210 --> 00:49:42,490
to become shocked and alarmed and

1152
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:45,220
something is out there but gradually you

1153
00:49:48,750 --> 00:49:46,930
know delivering and delivering and

1154
00:49:50,670 --> 00:49:48,760
delivering and more and more people like

1155
00:49:53,250 --> 00:49:50,680
me whatever saying pay attention pay

1156
00:49:57,540 --> 00:49:53,260
attention and groups and at some point

1157
00:50:00,120 --> 00:49:57,550
some you know hopeful authority or

1158
00:50:02,190 --> 00:50:00,130
breakthrough or investigative report or

1159
00:50:06,510 --> 00:50:02,200
something comes along that says wait a

1160
00:50:08,339 --> 00:50:06,520
minute everyone pay attention and you

1161
00:50:09,930 --> 00:50:08,349
know we've been seasoned then we've been

1162
00:50:14,460 --> 00:50:09,940
you know it's been a while that we've

1163
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:14,470
been adjusting as some level of you know

1164
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:15,970
there's lots of people who are paying

1165
00:50:20,490 --> 00:50:18,010
attention to the crop circles nowhere

1166
00:50:22,710 --> 00:50:20,500
near the majority but not just a few

1167
00:50:25,170 --> 00:50:22,720
people either it's a very very

1168
00:50:27,540 --> 00:50:25,180
intriguing phenomenon that has a lot of

1169
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:27,550
people paying attention to it you know I

1170
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:29,650
think it's interesting i love how you

1171
00:50:35,099 --> 00:50:32,650
framed it up as speculation speculation

1172
00:50:38,130 --> 00:50:35,109
speculation and that's all we can do and

1173
00:50:40,730 --> 00:50:38,140
i also like the fact that you stay

1174
00:50:44,490 --> 00:50:40,740
grounded in the fact that the real

1175
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:44,500
paradigm buster is the other pneus so

1176
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:49,330
there is this other nests and that once

1177
00:50:54,570 --> 00:50:52,690
you jump over that chasm you can kind of

1178
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:54,580
figure out the rest one what you'll

1179
00:50:58,050 --> 00:50:56,290
you'll figure it out your way however

1180
00:51:01,440 --> 00:50:58,060
that way is but you will have left

1181
00:51:03,230 --> 00:51:01,450
behind the kind of hypnotic trance that

1182
00:51:05,490 --> 00:51:03,240
we're told you know just go out and

1183
00:51:08,609 --> 00:51:05,500
shopping that's all you need to do and

1184
00:51:12,060 --> 00:51:08,619
just take care of your material needs

1185
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:12,070
but a couple of things that you said in

1186
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:14,970
there do resonate with some of the

1187
00:51:19,730 --> 00:51:17,170
explorations we've done an extended

1188
00:51:22,460 --> 00:51:19,740
human consciousness be it through

1189
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:22,470
near-death experience or medium

1190
00:51:27,839 --> 00:51:25,690
communication or even psychedelic

1191
00:51:29,730 --> 00:51:27,849
experiences that people have and a

1192
00:51:33,390 --> 00:51:29,740
couple things I point out is that one

1193
00:51:36,620 --> 00:51:33,400
the messages that we get from the other

1194
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:36,630
from the greater from the more aren't

1195
00:51:41,309 --> 00:51:40,810
usually clear definitive messages that

1196
00:51:43,739 --> 00:51:41,319
we can

1197
00:51:46,949 --> 00:51:43,749
bring back and share with everyone as

1198
00:51:48,959 --> 00:51:46,959
you know this is it this is the this is

1199
00:51:50,819 --> 00:51:48,969
the tablet that I got from the mountain

1200
00:51:54,150 --> 00:51:50,829
and here are the 10 rules that we have

1201
00:51:56,549 --> 00:51:54,160
to live with whatever we can say about

1202
00:51:58,799 --> 00:51:56,559
what this ultimate reality is and these

1203
00:52:00,449 --> 00:51:58,809
ultimate truths are we can say that it

1204
00:52:03,269 --> 00:52:00,459
doesn't seem to come down like that

1205
00:52:05,999 --> 00:52:03,279
there's a lot of contradictory or

1206
00:52:07,890 --> 00:52:06,009
apparent contradictory information here

1207
00:52:10,650 --> 00:52:07,900
so I think when people try and pull

1208
00:52:12,959 --> 00:52:10,660
apart the crop circle phenomena and

1209
00:52:15,209 --> 00:52:12,969
discredit it by saying well you know why

1210
00:52:16,410 --> 00:52:15,219
would they say this and why would they

1211
00:52:18,689 --> 00:52:16,420
square the circle and what does that

1212
00:52:20,759 --> 00:52:18,699
mean it versus this it's like you know

1213
00:52:22,979 --> 00:52:20,769
maybe we're not supposed to be able to

1214
00:52:25,199 --> 00:52:22,989
like you I love the way you said it put

1215
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:25,209
it all together as a jigsaw puzzle like

1216
00:52:29,699 --> 00:52:27,249
we'd like to and say there we've solved

1217
00:52:31,799 --> 00:52:29,709
it do you have any thoughts on our need

1218
00:52:34,410 --> 00:52:31,809
to look for a message when when really

1219
00:52:36,509 --> 00:52:34,420
the message has to come from within

1220
00:52:38,910 --> 00:52:36,519
ultimately it has to resonate with

1221
00:52:42,359 --> 00:52:38,920
something deep inside of us and this is

1222
00:52:45,329 --> 00:52:42,369
my opinion this is really about personal

1223
00:52:47,849 --> 00:52:45,339
transformation as much or more than it's

1224
00:52:49,380 --> 00:52:47,859
about group or collective transformation

1225
00:52:51,150 --> 00:52:49,390
because really you can't have one

1226
00:52:53,789 --> 00:52:51,160
without the other but it has to start

1227
00:52:55,559 --> 00:52:53,799
with the personal transformation well

1228
00:52:57,719 --> 00:52:55,569
I'm not so sure Alex we might have a

1229
00:52:59,849 --> 00:52:57,729
little disagreement there I have this

1230
00:53:01,949 --> 00:52:59,859
feeling that no it's not about person I

1231
00:53:05,309 --> 00:53:01,959
mean all that growth work we do whatever

1232
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:05,319
examining ourselves but if this this is

1233
00:53:10,199 --> 00:53:08,170
a sort of more on the surface of oh my

1234
00:53:12,839 --> 00:53:10,209
goodness you know hitting us over the

1235
00:53:14,849 --> 00:53:12,849
head if attention is called to it and we

1236
00:53:17,189 --> 00:53:14,859
are told because they paid attention

1237
00:53:19,529 --> 00:53:17,199
that something inexplicable is going on

1238
00:53:22,650 --> 00:53:19,539
and then I think it sort of filters down

1239
00:53:24,209 --> 00:53:22,660
into your being of you know your mind is

1240
00:53:28,289 --> 00:53:24,219
now in a different place you've been

1241
00:53:30,390 --> 00:53:28,299
affected and something so different than

1242
00:53:33,089 --> 00:53:30,400
what your whole life so you know a

1243
00:53:35,039 --> 00:53:33,099
perspective has been is going on and you

1244
00:53:37,079 --> 00:53:35,049
just have to kind of swallow it and deal

1245
00:53:39,870 --> 00:53:37,089
with it and think about it and what have

1246
00:53:43,289 --> 00:53:39,880
you and and you know I just love the

1247
00:53:45,930 --> 00:53:43,299
idea that it creates us as one it

1248
00:53:47,670 --> 00:53:45,940
creates us as one humanity in relation

1249
00:53:50,069 --> 00:53:47,680
to the other because that's really

1250
00:53:52,229 --> 00:53:50,079
that's what we need once we really care

1251
00:53:54,470 --> 00:53:52,239
about our mutuality as much as we care

1252
00:53:56,630 --> 00:53:54,480
about our individuality

1253
00:53:59,960 --> 00:53:56,640
will change the world that's the world

1254
00:54:03,860 --> 00:53:59,970
that needs to change and you know the

1255
00:54:05,630 --> 00:54:03,870
circles are such a wonderful possibility

1256
00:54:08,150 --> 00:54:05,640
you know you're you're saying all those

1257
00:54:10,250 --> 00:54:08,160
other things that are going on you can't

1258
00:54:12,470 --> 00:54:10,260
pin them down and nail them down and

1259
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:12,480
show them as evidence there to ephemeral

1260
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:15,090
they're too individualistic but but it's

1261
00:54:20,450 --> 00:54:18,330
exactly why I the circles grab me as

1262
00:54:22,070 --> 00:54:20,460
these other things that I'm ollege I'm

1263
00:54:23,750 --> 00:54:22,080
interested in all of them I mean we

1264
00:54:26,420 --> 00:54:23,760
could talk a lot about all that I mean

1265
00:54:29,090 --> 00:54:26,430
I'm deeply steeped in consciousness kind

1266
00:54:32,720 --> 00:54:29,100
of work but those circles present a

1267
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:32,730
unique opportunity in the hard material

1268
00:54:38,650 --> 00:54:36,570
world to give us the evidence of the

1269
00:54:41,390 --> 00:54:38,660
bigger picture that we're all part of

1270
00:54:42,980 --> 00:54:41,400
and you know the people who are

1271
00:54:44,900 --> 00:54:42,990
enthusiastic about the service who know

1272
00:54:47,930 --> 00:54:44,910
as much as I know i mean our hearts are

1273
00:54:49,220 --> 00:54:47,940
just melted from this really and and you

1274
00:54:50,900 --> 00:54:49,230
know that's what could happen to

1275
00:54:53,270 --> 00:54:50,910
everyone so wouldn't that be a

1276
00:54:56,120 --> 00:54:53,280
consummation devoutly to be wished for

1277
00:54:59,540 --> 00:54:56,130
us i believe willie the shakes said one

1278
00:55:01,520 --> 00:54:59,550
you know that's a very good point now

1279
00:55:03,950 --> 00:55:01,530
i'm glad that you made it and i do have

1280
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:03,960
to kind of swing around and and agree

1281
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:05,370
with you and acknowledge what you're

1282
00:55:10,910 --> 00:55:07,650
saying because you're right the

1283
00:55:15,710 --> 00:55:10,920
phenomena the way it manifests itself is

1284
00:55:18,740 --> 00:55:15,720
very public very much about collective

1285
00:55:20,420 --> 00:55:18,750
group experience and in that way it's

1286
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:20,430
different it's very different it's very

1287
00:55:25,700 --> 00:55:23,690
different than most abduction

1288
00:55:27,260 --> 00:55:25,710
experiences abduction is kind of a

1289
00:55:29,720 --> 00:55:27,270
challenging word but it's the one that

1290
00:55:31,970 --> 00:55:29,730
we have it's different than near-death

1291
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:31,980
experiences although some of those have

1292
00:55:37,460 --> 00:55:34,970
some group aspect to it that's not the

1293
00:55:40,010 --> 00:55:37,470
that's not the overwhelming majority

1294
00:55:42,290 --> 00:55:40,020
it's it's far the minority of the

1295
00:55:43,370 --> 00:55:42,300
experiences and yet you're right you're

1296
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:43,380
right ahead and really thought about it

1297
00:55:48,260 --> 00:55:46,170
that way but this is by its very nature

1298
00:55:49,940 --> 00:55:48,270
we can't say i almost said by its design

1299
00:55:52,580 --> 00:55:49,950
but we don't know that but by its nature

1300
00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:52,590
it is a group experience it is a

1301
00:55:58,550 --> 00:55:55,770
collective experience it is a community

1302
00:56:01,460 --> 00:55:58,560
experience to have these things out

1303
00:56:03,650 --> 00:56:01,470
there like that isn't it well exactly

1304
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:03,660
it's very unique there's nothing really

1305
00:56:08,150 --> 00:56:06,690
quite like this and as I say it's why I

1306
00:56:11,059 --> 00:56:08,160
got so fascinated with

1307
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:11,069
it and I still you know just hold hope

1308
00:56:17,990 --> 00:56:13,530
that you know my movie which is called

1309
00:56:23,450 --> 00:56:18,000
one on earth is very well known in the

1310
00:56:25,910 --> 00:56:23,460
whole UFO underground world um everybody

1311
00:56:29,210 --> 00:56:25,920
knows this movie but getting it out to

1312
00:56:32,270 --> 00:56:29,220
the mainstream is still a challenge I'm

1313
00:56:36,980 --> 00:56:32,280
still you know trying whoo-hoo what you

1314
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:36,990
know it Rosie O'Donnell uh well if she

1315
00:56:42,289 --> 00:56:39,450
were ongoing and had her TV show she was

1316
00:56:44,690 --> 00:56:42,299
my champion but she's not out there you

1317
00:56:47,510 --> 00:56:44,700
know making noise anymore I could use

1318
00:56:50,599 --> 00:56:47,520
one noisemaker it is odd that there's

1319
00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:50,609
nobody from the showbiz world that

1320
00:56:55,579 --> 00:56:52,770
really she was fascinated by him having

1321
00:56:57,289 --> 00:56:55,589
seen my movie but you know there it is

1322
00:56:59,270 --> 00:56:57,299
people visit all the time how can we

1323
00:57:00,859 --> 00:56:59,280
haven't had any big celebrities over

1324
00:57:02,930 --> 00:57:00,869
there I take a celebrity it doesn't

1325
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:02,940
matter somebody who's people are paying

1326
00:57:07,700 --> 00:57:05,010
attention to get on a soapbox and say

1327
00:57:10,069 --> 00:57:07,710
hey world pay attention to this you know

1328
00:57:12,170 --> 00:57:10,079
so I'm still looking for my champion out

1329
00:57:14,720 --> 00:57:12,180
there so if anybody's listening you want

1330
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:14,730
to be my champion be in touch so you

1331
00:57:18,529 --> 00:57:16,410
know maybe is the last topic we can

1332
00:57:21,970 --> 00:57:18,539
touch on let's pick up on what you just

1333
00:57:25,730 --> 00:57:21,980
said because we can't get this far into

1334
00:57:28,069 --> 00:57:25,740
this whole phenomenon the experience

1335
00:57:30,910 --> 00:57:28,079
that it is for so many people and then

1336
00:57:34,010 --> 00:57:30,920
not address the deliberate

1337
00:57:36,950 --> 00:57:34,020
misinformation the deliberate willful

1338
00:57:40,250 --> 00:57:36,960
ignorance on the part of so many people

1339
00:57:41,930 --> 00:57:40,260
that are in the mainstream media the

1340
00:57:45,980 --> 00:57:41,940
power structure whatever we want to call

1341
00:57:47,870 --> 00:57:45,990
it that that how can this be ignored and

1342
00:57:51,500 --> 00:57:47,880
then how can we possibly believe that

1343
00:57:54,769 --> 00:57:51,510
that is not a systematic effort to

1344
00:57:57,950 --> 00:57:54,779
ignore too distracted to direct people

1345
00:58:01,099 --> 00:57:57,960
away from this phenomena what do you

1346
00:58:05,779 --> 00:58:01,109
make of that well of course that is an

1347
00:58:07,910 --> 00:58:05,789
interesting topic and the would we go

1348
00:58:13,210 --> 00:58:07,920
into some detail in the movie about the

1349
00:58:15,859 --> 00:58:13,220
big shift that happened in human

1350
00:58:19,180 --> 00:58:15,869
perception about this because when the

1351
00:58:21,300 --> 00:58:19,190
phenomenon was first juicy back in the

1352
00:58:25,300 --> 00:58:21,310
1980s and

1353
00:58:27,910 --> 00:58:25,310
1990s the the the world was quite

1354
00:58:32,530 --> 00:58:27,920
fascinated by what was going on it was

1355
00:58:34,810 --> 00:58:32,540
it was making news it and then all of a

1356
00:58:36,310 --> 00:58:34,820
sudden we still have you know people

1357
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:36,320
still today was I don't know those two

1358
00:58:41,730 --> 00:58:38,570
guys in England those farmers they made

1359
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:41,740
them all they confess that was in 2001

1360
00:58:50,410 --> 00:58:47,210
well so we go into the story of Doug and

1361
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:50,420
Dave still infamous and and that those

1362
00:58:56,020 --> 00:58:52,730
names are very familiar with many people

1363
00:58:57,790 --> 00:58:56,030
in the public because all of a sudden

1364
00:58:59,530 --> 00:58:57,800
the press release went all over the

1365
00:59:01,300 --> 00:58:59,540
world that said these two guys had made

1366
00:59:03,460 --> 00:59:01,310
them all well if you stop to think about

1367
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:03,470
the illogic of that these are two little

1368
00:59:07,780 --> 00:59:05,930
farmers in England from nowhere and all

1369
00:59:10,210 --> 00:59:07,790
of a sudden there's a press release that

1370
00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:10,220
got into newspapers all over the world

1371
00:59:16,170 --> 00:59:14,210
that debunk it well we go into some

1372
00:59:18,340 --> 00:59:16,180
detail in the movie about that and

1373
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:18,350
tracking where that press release came

1374
00:59:22,420 --> 00:59:20,450
from and it does seem to have come from

1375
00:59:25,990 --> 00:59:22,430
the Ministry of Defence when you track

1376
00:59:29,830 --> 00:59:26,000
back to some layers of illusion about PR

1377
00:59:32,170 --> 00:59:29,840
firm and what have you so there was some

1378
00:59:34,570 --> 00:59:32,180
apparently concerted effort on the part

1379
00:59:37,030 --> 00:59:34,580
of the powers that be to divert

1380
00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:37,040
attention and it doesn't take much to

1381
00:59:42,490 --> 00:59:39,730
divert attention from something as

1382
00:59:46,270 --> 00:59:42,500
groundbreaking and earth shattering is

1383
00:59:47,890 --> 00:59:46,280
this oh yeah good oh we don't have to

1384
00:59:49,630 --> 00:59:47,900
think about that anymore that's been

1385
00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:49,640
explained those two guys did it and that

1386
00:59:54,310 --> 00:59:52,730
story you know really set the world on a

1387
00:59:57,760 --> 00:59:54,320
different course and ever since then

1388
01:00:00,190 --> 00:59:57,770
skepticism has outweighed curiosity but

1389
01:00:03,340 --> 01:00:00,200
you know I don't know Alex I often

1390
01:00:05,050 --> 01:00:03,350
wonder about government interference

1391
01:00:06,610 --> 01:00:05,060
with all these things with the UFO

1392
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:06,620
things and the UFO crowd is very

1393
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:09,890
convinced that there's a campaign a very

1394
01:00:12,850 --> 01:00:11,690
concerted campaign on the part of the

1395
01:00:15,190 --> 01:00:12,860
government to suppress this information

1396
01:00:17,220 --> 01:00:15,200
oh the evidence is overwhelming i mean

1397
01:00:19,930 --> 01:00:17,230
the evidence of it happening right now

1398
01:00:22,510 --> 01:00:19,940
we don't have as much but all we have to

1399
01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:22,520
do is look back 30 or 40 years in the

1400
01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:24,290
Declassified document it's clear and

1401
01:00:29,350 --> 01:00:26,090
then the question that one would have to

1402
01:00:31,540 --> 01:00:29,360
ask is why would we assume any of that

1403
01:00:33,220 --> 01:00:31,550
has slowed down or stopped and what

1404
01:00:34,500 --> 01:00:33,230
evidence do we have that if our

1405
01:00:38,210 --> 01:00:34,510
intelligence are going to say

1406
01:00:41,010 --> 01:00:38,220
were manufacturing the data hiring

1407
01:00:43,260 --> 01:00:41,020
academicians hiring people in at

1408
01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:43,270
universities to kind of misdirect

1409
01:00:47,670 --> 01:00:45,970
misinform people why would we think any

1410
01:00:49,260 --> 01:00:47,680
of that stopped I mean and I think the

1411
01:00:51,510 --> 01:00:49,270
same is true here but please go ahead

1412
01:00:53,070 --> 01:00:51,520
well you know you know I wanted to say

1413
01:00:55,260 --> 01:00:53,080
something about my thoughts about this

1414
01:00:57,900 --> 01:00:55,270
whole idea of government suppression I

1415
01:01:01,590 --> 01:00:57,910
think that perhaps we have a lot more

1416
01:01:02,990 --> 01:01:01,600
romantic idea about the force of the

1417
01:01:05,910 --> 01:01:03,000
government and they're conspiring

1418
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:05,920
against these far-out kind of things I

1419
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:07,330
think government is probably more

1420
01:01:11,820 --> 01:01:09,250
chaotic than that I don't even know that

1421
01:01:14,100 --> 01:01:11,830
there's a real department or a focus or

1422
01:01:17,070 --> 01:01:14,110
whatever there have been some incidents

1423
01:01:19,650 --> 01:01:17,080
like the disinformation that went out

1424
01:01:23,100 --> 01:01:19,660
about Doug and Dave and we have the

1425
01:01:25,020 --> 01:01:23,110
Robertson panel back in the early UFO

1426
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:25,030
days which decided that they didn't know

1427
01:01:29,670 --> 01:01:26,890
what was going on and that the world was

1428
01:01:30,870 --> 01:01:29,680
curious and concerned and if they said

1429
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:30,880
they didn't know what was going on in

1430
01:01:35,910 --> 01:01:32,650
the world would really be concerned so

1431
01:01:38,190 --> 01:01:35,920
that the actual administrative decision

1432
01:01:40,230 --> 01:01:38,200
on the part of government was to debunk

1433
01:01:42,570 --> 01:01:40,240
it to laugh at it to ridicule it

1434
01:01:45,990 --> 01:01:42,580
whenever it came up and that does not

1435
01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:46,000
seem to have been rescinded at any point

1436
01:01:49,980 --> 01:01:47,650
but I don't know there's ever really a

1437
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:49,990
focus on that I think that decision just

1438
01:01:54,620 --> 01:01:52,690
colored the air way back when I think

1439
01:01:57,330 --> 01:01:54,630
that was in the 50s or early fifties and

1440
01:02:01,650 --> 01:01:57,340
and I think that's just been you know

1441
01:02:04,500 --> 01:02:01,660
the the the the sort of a menu of policy

1442
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:04,510
rather than any you know back room where

1443
01:02:09,090 --> 01:02:06,730
everybody's deciding to put down the

1444
01:02:11,700 --> 01:02:09,100
UFOs and put down the crop circles you

1445
01:02:13,170 --> 01:02:11,710
know three I agree totally agree you

1446
01:02:15,450 --> 01:02:13,180
know some people think that some people

1447
01:02:18,150 --> 01:02:15,460
think that you know that I closure has

1448
01:02:20,490 --> 01:02:18,160
to be up some body of information that's

1449
01:02:22,290 --> 01:02:20,500
being kept together and I I don't know

1450
01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:22,300
I'm not so sure that's true at all i

1451
01:02:28,470 --> 01:02:24,610
think that misunderstanding of the

1452
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:28,480
nature of power and influence just

1453
01:02:34,110 --> 01:02:31,930
conspires to create this this

1454
01:02:36,750 --> 01:02:34,120
misinformation now i just got done

1455
01:02:39,540 --> 01:02:36,760
interviewing not too long ago russ Baker

1456
01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:39,550
who is investigative journalist

1457
01:02:44,910 --> 01:02:41,770
best-selling author of the book about

1458
01:02:47,820 --> 01:02:44,920
the bush dynasty yes you know I help

1459
01:02:49,980 --> 01:02:47,830
dress I help dress with his website

1460
01:02:51,630 --> 01:02:49,990
well that's fantastic and what I think

1461
01:02:53,820 --> 01:02:51,640
is interesting why wait that what it's

1462
01:02:56,610 --> 01:02:53,830
called who what when something yes like

1463
01:03:00,060 --> 01:02:56,620
that yes and what when that's great but

1464
01:03:02,040 --> 01:03:00,070
Russ bigger was kind of a kind of a side

1465
01:03:03,450 --> 01:03:02,050
step for me and skeptical because

1466
01:03:05,430 --> 01:03:03,460
they're pretty state stay pretty close

1467
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:05,440
to the consciousness issue but I do

1468
01:03:09,540 --> 01:03:08,050
think I have to return to this idea of

1469
01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:09,550
conspiracies because we have to

1470
01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:12,250
understand how these things happen if

1471
01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:14,770
we're ever going to unravel this and a

1472
01:03:17,370 --> 01:03:16,210
couple of things we've talked about here

1473
01:03:21,960 --> 01:03:17,380
I think are important in that you know

1474
01:03:25,050 --> 01:03:21,970
it doesn't take a tightly-knit large

1475
01:03:27,780 --> 01:03:25,060
group of people in a back smoky room to

1476
01:03:30,780 --> 01:03:27,790
do these things it takes one or two

1477
01:03:33,420 --> 01:03:30,790
people to give a nudge here a wink there

1478
01:03:35,130 --> 01:03:33,430
to approve this to kind of throw a

1479
01:03:38,160 --> 01:03:35,140
little bit of paint on this thing and

1480
01:03:40,860 --> 01:03:38,170
then the Machine kind of works the way

1481
01:03:43,560 --> 01:03:40,870
that it works without a lot of without a

1482
01:03:48,330 --> 01:03:43,570
lot of help and the the nin Campu pari

1483
01:03:50,160 --> 01:03:48,340
of the system only only helps it because

1484
01:03:52,530 --> 01:03:50,170
then everyone says well gee look how

1485
01:03:55,050 --> 01:03:52,540
incompetent this organization is this

1486
01:03:57,750 --> 01:03:55,060
government is this agency is how could

1487
01:04:00,780 --> 01:03:57,760
it possibly create this huge you know

1488
01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:00,790
well organized conspiracy no it doesn't

1489
01:04:04,110 --> 01:04:02,410
it's it's going to happen one way or

1490
01:04:06,510 --> 01:04:04,120
another you just need a couple of

1491
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:06,520
well-placed people to sit back let

1492
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:08,410
things play out and when things don't

1493
01:04:13,080 --> 01:04:10,570
quite play out the way you want boy you

1494
01:04:14,820 --> 01:04:13,090
just nudge it over this way I heard an

1495
01:04:16,770 --> 01:04:14,830
interview we're getting far field but

1496
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:16,780
that's okay but I heard an interview and

1497
01:04:21,750 --> 01:04:18,610
it's really a wonderful archive

1498
01:04:23,940 --> 01:04:21,760
interview with Timothy Leary of course

1499
01:04:26,120 --> 01:04:23,950
the famous yes why my favorite from way

1500
01:04:28,530 --> 01:04:26,130
back yeah yes but the the Harvard

1501
01:04:31,020 --> 01:04:28,540
psychiatrist who pioneered the use of

1502
01:04:34,020 --> 01:04:31,030
LSD and and really created a whole

1503
01:04:36,030 --> 01:04:34,030
social revolution what was it turn on

1504
01:04:38,460 --> 01:04:36,040
tune in and drop out you know was the

1505
01:04:40,260 --> 01:04:38,470
whole thing and what would he said which

1506
01:04:41,940 --> 01:04:40,270
I thought was was was stunning but

1507
01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:41,950
relevant he goes you know we didn't

1508
01:04:44,970 --> 01:04:43,570
realize for the longest time I didn't

1509
01:04:47,610 --> 01:04:44,980
realize till is all over and I was in

1510
01:04:50,940 --> 01:04:47,620
jail that I had been infiltrated I had

1511
01:04:53,910 --> 01:04:50,950
been co-opted early on you know and I

1512
01:04:56,760 --> 01:04:53,920
think that's the kind of stuff that we

1513
01:04:59,160 --> 01:04:56,770
don't fully work into the whole

1514
01:05:00,660 --> 01:04:59,170
conspiracy thing so you're Timothy Leary

1515
01:05:01,490 --> 01:05:00,670
and you're going hey man this is great

1516
01:05:03,320 --> 01:05:01,500
we're going

1517
01:05:05,480 --> 01:05:03,330
change the world you know rat claws and

1518
01:05:07,310 --> 01:05:05,490
you you're sitting right next you're

1519
01:05:11,540 --> 01:05:07,320
dropping acid with a guy from the FBI

1520
01:05:14,420 --> 01:05:11,550
right next to you from the get-go so you

1521
01:05:17,660 --> 01:05:14,430
know I I think a deeper understanding of

1522
01:05:19,790 --> 01:05:17,670
the true nature of power control

1523
01:05:23,690 --> 01:05:19,800
influence and the way that it manifests

1524
01:05:25,790 --> 01:05:23,700
itself in these engineered conspiracies

1525
01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:25,800
is important to really understanding

1526
01:05:31,240 --> 01:05:27,450
this whole thing and we return to crop

1527
01:05:35,810 --> 01:05:31,250
circles there is no other way to explain

1528
01:05:37,730 --> 01:05:35,820
the stunning lack of interest stunning

1529
01:05:39,650 --> 01:05:37,740
lack of interest because as you say

1530
01:05:42,620 --> 01:05:39,660
these things are right there in our face

1531
01:05:47,320 --> 01:05:42,630
and there's no journalists there there's

1532
01:05:50,900 --> 01:05:47,330
no news teams there I mean that deserves

1533
01:05:53,560 --> 01:05:50,910
explanation at a much more you know

1534
01:05:56,270 --> 01:05:53,570
deeper this conspiratorial kind of level

1535
01:05:59,900 --> 01:05:56,280
well you know one of the things that we

1536
01:06:01,970 --> 01:05:59,910
can add to that rundown you know that

1537
01:06:05,540 --> 01:06:01,980
quite accurate from my point of view

1538
01:06:10,520 --> 01:06:05,550
that you were doing is that the way news

1539
01:06:13,580 --> 01:06:10,530
works is it runs on events so when you

1540
01:06:17,330 --> 01:06:13,590
have a phenomenon that is ongoing and

1541
01:06:19,460 --> 01:06:17,340
it's not a single event it tends also

1542
01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:19,470
there's a whole other kind of track it

1543
01:06:27,230 --> 01:06:23,010
tends to be ignored when for instance

1544
01:06:29,360 --> 01:06:27,240
that largest one ever appeared CNN was

1545
01:06:32,420 --> 01:06:29,370
there that was that was an event you

1546
01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:32,430
know but by and large the phenomenon

1547
01:06:37,630 --> 01:06:35,010
just keeps on keeping on and delivering

1548
01:06:42,290 --> 01:06:37,640
fascinating delicious wonderful

1549
01:06:45,080 --> 01:06:42,300
intriguing but but not unique you know

1550
01:06:48,490 --> 01:06:45,090
as the kind of thing that the news media

1551
01:06:55,220 --> 01:06:48,500
is set up for so you have that kind of

1552
01:06:59,270 --> 01:06:55,230
added kind of element that teach this

1553
01:07:00,860 --> 01:06:59,280
thing from really being reported on so

1554
01:07:03,020 --> 01:07:00,870
you know you have a lot of things

1555
01:07:07,070 --> 01:07:03,030
conspiring at once in a kind of an

1556
01:07:09,620 --> 01:07:07,080
innocent conspiracy to keep the things

1557
01:07:12,860 --> 01:07:09,630
out of the public eye that really should

1558
01:07:14,930 --> 01:07:12,870
be there well Suzanne your work is is

1559
01:07:17,150 --> 01:07:14,940
amazing and should be

1560
01:07:18,319 --> 01:07:17,160
raised and I'm here to praise it tell us

1561
01:07:19,940 --> 01:07:18,329
you've told us a little bit about some

1562
01:07:23,900 --> 01:07:19,950
of the new projects you're working on

1563
01:07:25,849 --> 01:07:23,910
and how your work is broadening to talk

1564
01:07:28,180 --> 01:07:25,859
about which it has for a long time but

1565
01:07:30,890 --> 01:07:28,190
it's broadening to focus on

1566
01:07:32,900 --> 01:07:30,900
consciousness issues in general as well

1567
01:07:34,309 --> 01:07:32,910
as crop circles tell us about what's

1568
01:07:35,740 --> 01:07:34,319
going on with you in the future and

1569
01:07:39,650 --> 01:07:35,750
where people can find out more about

1570
01:07:42,230 --> 01:07:39,660
what you're doing well doorway cafe is

1571
01:07:44,630 --> 01:07:42,240
my new website go Rafe at cafe calm

1572
01:07:50,050 --> 01:07:44,640
Suzanne's doorway cafe but doorway cafe

1573
01:07:53,329 --> 01:07:50,060
calm is the URL and you know I'm

1574
01:07:57,309 --> 01:07:53,339
interested in how we are going to get

1575
01:08:00,920 --> 01:07:57,319
out of this constricted selfish

1576
01:08:03,829 --> 01:08:00,930
self-centered kind of worldview to where

1577
01:08:06,190 --> 01:08:03,839
we are one humanity it's just the most

1578
01:08:09,319 --> 01:08:06,200
important thing to be doing every issue

1579
01:08:11,660 --> 01:08:09,329
solving global warming and solving oil

1580
01:08:14,180 --> 01:08:11,670
depletion and solving you know all the

1581
01:08:17,479 --> 01:08:14,190
things that challenge us are being held

1582
01:08:20,720 --> 01:08:17,489
in place by our worldview we agreed tops

1583
01:08:23,599 --> 01:08:20,730
compassion and so I'm interested in all

1584
01:08:24,709 --> 01:08:23,609
the ways that potentially we can break

1585
01:08:26,930 --> 01:08:24,719
through and there will be different

1586
01:08:30,050 --> 01:08:26,940
tracks there you know one of my big

1587
01:08:32,749 --> 01:08:30,060
tracks that I've been on for the last

1588
01:08:35,090 --> 01:08:32,759
year is this Ted situation and I know

1589
01:08:36,800 --> 01:08:35,100
you've done of the shows about it and

1590
01:08:40,700 --> 01:08:36,810
people can learn more about that if they

1591
01:08:44,570 --> 01:08:40,710
get on doorway cafe but the Ted became

1592
01:08:48,939 --> 01:08:44,580
very repressive after thinking of it as

1593
01:08:53,349 --> 01:08:48,949
the icon of intellect and last year they

1594
01:08:59,900 --> 01:08:53,359
fell under the influence of the

1595
01:09:01,939 --> 01:08:59,910
fundamentalist scientism folks the 88

1596
01:09:04,249 --> 01:09:01,949
materialist a PSA of all these labels

1597
01:09:06,019 --> 01:09:04,259
for them at any rate there the

1598
01:09:08,780 --> 01:09:06,029
repressive fundamentalists who are

1599
01:09:12,079 --> 01:09:08,790
holding us back from thinking these

1600
01:09:16,360 --> 01:09:12,089
thoughts beyond scientific materialism

1601
01:09:18,890 --> 01:09:16,370
and Ted became influenced by them and

1602
01:09:21,019 --> 01:09:18,900
you did a wonderful show with Rupert

1603
01:09:24,499 --> 01:09:21,029
Sheldrake at the time that was going on

1604
01:09:26,930 --> 01:09:24,509
he was one of their targets and Graham

1605
01:09:28,550 --> 01:09:26,940
Hancock was the second target of theirs

1606
01:09:30,530 --> 01:09:28,560
and I produce

1607
01:09:33,140 --> 01:09:30,540
in TEDx West Hollywood was the third

1608
01:09:36,620 --> 01:09:33,150
target and it becomes an arena for

1609
01:09:39,170 --> 01:09:36,630
examining not just criticizing kids

1610
01:09:43,010 --> 01:09:39,180
which you know it does have the shadow

1611
01:09:44,930 --> 01:09:43,020
side and it should be criticized and if

1612
01:09:47,920 --> 01:09:44,940
we're going to hold it up as an icon of

1613
01:09:49,790 --> 01:09:47,930
intellectual stock well let's have it be

1614
01:09:52,400 --> 01:09:49,800
representative of the highest thought

1615
01:09:54,560 --> 01:09:52,410
and not a fundamentalist thought and

1616
01:09:57,350 --> 01:09:54,570
that's why you know it's a good arena

1617
01:09:59,630 --> 01:09:57,360
for it's a microcosm of what's going on

1618
01:10:03,500 --> 01:09:59,640
in the world where we need to get off

1619
01:10:06,260 --> 01:10:03,510
this narrow perspective and Ted being so

1620
01:10:09,890 --> 01:10:06,270
visible if ted says wait a minute let us

1621
01:10:12,770 --> 01:10:09,900
reconsider what ideas indeed our ideas

1622
01:10:15,170 --> 01:10:12,780
worth spreading which is their motto and

1623
01:10:18,950 --> 01:10:15,180
that we have been too restrictive about

1624
01:10:21,290 --> 01:10:18,960
our acceptance of things that are more

1625
01:10:23,840 --> 01:10:21,300
outside of ordinary reality which

1626
01:10:27,830 --> 01:10:23,850
science itself in this whole quantum

1627
01:10:29,930 --> 01:10:27,840
world science is ahead the scientists at

1628
01:10:34,280 --> 01:10:29,940
the edge are really ahead of the

1629
01:10:37,910 --> 01:10:34,290
mainstream and ted has favored this

1630
01:10:41,210 --> 01:10:37,920
mainstream perspective so so Ted is a

1631
01:10:43,520 --> 01:10:41,220
big category for me having both had a

1632
01:10:46,220 --> 01:10:43,530
personal level suffered from their

1633
01:10:48,710 --> 01:10:46,230
restrictive policies where midstream

1634
01:10:50,870 --> 01:10:48,720
they canceled my license actually when I

1635
01:10:53,750 --> 01:10:50,880
was ready to put my event on two weeks

1636
01:10:57,550 --> 01:10:53,760
before after a year of working on it

1637
01:10:59,900 --> 01:10:57,560
they canceled my license and an outcry

1638
01:11:01,700 --> 01:10:59,910
occurred because they were already an

1639
01:11:04,430 --> 01:11:01,710
outcry about what they had done to

1640
01:11:07,520 --> 01:11:04,440
sheldrick and hancock and so the you

1641
01:11:10,730 --> 01:11:07,530
know us three victims are actually the

1642
01:11:13,100 --> 01:11:10,740
opportunity for Ted's reexamine itself

1643
01:11:15,070 --> 01:11:13,110
and as such become the kind of platform

1644
01:11:19,670 --> 01:11:15,080
for the world to take another look at

1645
01:11:21,740 --> 01:11:19,680
what it considers acceptable whereby we

1646
01:11:23,990 --> 01:11:21,750
can really deal with this worldview

1647
01:11:27,950 --> 01:11:24,000
that's keeping us in this very

1648
01:11:29,900 --> 01:11:27,960
restricted and unpropitious place where

1649
01:11:31,850 --> 01:11:29,910
we are not in the best position to solve

1650
01:11:34,600 --> 01:11:31,860
all the problems to challenge us and we

1651
01:11:37,490 --> 01:11:34,610
need to be so that's a big arena for me

1652
01:11:40,040 --> 01:11:37,500
and crop circles of course you know

1653
01:11:42,260 --> 01:11:40,050
ongoingly I you know got my stake in

1654
01:11:44,270 --> 01:11:42,270
them as another thing

1655
01:11:47,120 --> 01:11:44,280
to pay attention to and then you'll find

1656
01:11:49,100 --> 01:11:47,130
all kinds of other entertainment and

1657
01:11:51,950 --> 01:11:49,110
amusement along the road to the next

1658
01:11:54,530 --> 01:11:51,960
reality which is our little tagline well

1659
01:11:57,620 --> 01:11:54,540
great sign me up or I will sign myself

1660
01:12:00,710 --> 01:11:57,630
up at door way cafe so so that's

1661
01:12:04,190 --> 01:12:00,720
terrific Suzanne I admire your work

1662
01:12:08,090 --> 01:12:04,200
greatly I love your optimism I can't

1663
01:12:12,080 --> 01:12:08,100
share it I don't see any way to turn Ted

1664
01:12:14,960 --> 01:12:12,090
around or I just think that's that's you

1665
01:12:17,990 --> 01:12:14,970
know maybe there's some thing to be

1666
01:12:19,640 --> 01:12:18,000
gained by just the effort in doing it

1667
01:12:21,320 --> 01:12:19,650
but I think you're you're deep inside

1668
01:12:24,770 --> 01:12:21,330
the belly of the beast there but hey

1669
01:12:26,990 --> 01:12:24,780
we'll just follow your follow your

1670
01:12:29,840 --> 01:12:27,000
journey and I sure hope you prove me

1671
01:12:32,120 --> 01:12:29,850
wrong it's been great having on the show

1672
01:12:34,400 --> 01:12:32,130
I do hope everyone checks out doorway

1673
01:12:37,130 --> 01:12:34,410
cafe Suzanne thanks again so much for

1674
01:12:38,900 --> 01:12:37,140
joining me on skeptic oh thanks again to

1675
01:12:40,790 --> 01:12:38,910
Suzanne Taylor for joining me today on

1676
01:12:43,130 --> 01:12:40,800
skeptic Oh as you can tell I'm really

1677
01:12:46,070 --> 01:12:43,140
impressed with Suzanne's work and in

1678
01:12:48,560 --> 01:12:46,080
particular her dedication to this work

1679
01:12:51,290 --> 01:12:48,570
her willingness to continue to pursue

1680
01:12:55,130 --> 01:12:51,300
this and that grow weary but instead

1681
01:12:58,880 --> 01:12:55,140
continue to find fresh new angles to

1682
01:13:01,610 --> 01:12:58,890
pursue this very very important topic so

1683
01:13:03,440 --> 01:13:01,620
I just have one question to tee up from

1684
01:13:05,960 --> 01:13:03,450
this interview and it's just the basic

1685
01:13:08,120 --> 01:13:05,970
question what do you make of crop

1686
01:13:09,740 --> 01:13:08,130
circles and in particular one of the

1687
01:13:12,440 --> 01:13:09,750
things that I stumbled across that I

1688
01:13:15,050 --> 01:13:12,450
didn't really spend a lot of time but i

1689
01:13:17,720 --> 01:13:15,060
did find very interesting is the

1690
01:13:20,480 --> 01:13:17,730
debunking of the debunking that's been

1691
01:13:22,910 --> 01:13:20,490
done with crop circles that is the work

1692
01:13:25,280 --> 01:13:22,920
that's been done by some researchers to

1693
01:13:28,460 --> 01:13:25,290
follow up on folks who claimed to be the

1694
01:13:30,560 --> 01:13:28,470
hoaxers and what they've shown in many

1695
01:13:32,840 --> 01:13:30,570
of these cases is that the story of

1696
01:13:35,420 --> 01:13:32,850
hoaxing just doesn't hold up either

1697
01:13:38,450 --> 01:13:35,430
their direct witnesses who contradict

1698
01:13:39,950 --> 01:13:38,460
the crop circle hoaxers so a hoaxer will

1699
01:13:42,170 --> 01:13:39,960
say yeah we did that last night in the

1700
01:13:44,180 --> 01:13:42,180
field from 10 to 3 a.m. in the morning

1701
01:13:46,070 --> 01:13:44,190
then there'll be a security guard who

1702
01:13:47,570 --> 01:13:46,080
says yeah I was by the field of 1230

1703
01:13:49,730 --> 01:13:47,580
there was no one there and another

1704
01:13:51,620 --> 01:13:49,740
person says I live in that town and and

1705
01:13:52,940 --> 01:13:51,630
was up at 2am in the morning and looked

1706
01:13:53,560 --> 01:13:52,950
down on that field and there was nothing

1707
01:13:59,890 --> 01:13:53,570
there

1708
01:14:02,319 --> 01:13:59,900
debunking the hoaxers which puts a whole

1709
01:14:05,410 --> 01:14:02,329
other spin on this in terms of raising

1710
01:14:08,740 --> 01:14:05,420
the question where is this hoaxing

1711
01:14:10,419 --> 01:14:08,750
information coming from so jump in there

1712
01:14:12,129 --> 01:14:10,429
let me know what you think about crop

1713
01:14:14,080 --> 01:14:12,139
circles of course the place to do that

1714
01:14:18,520 --> 01:14:14,090
is through the skeptical website which

1715
01:14:20,589 --> 01:14:18,530
you can find it sk-ii pti KO kaam can

1716
01:14:22,419 --> 01:14:20,599
leave a comment right there jump on over

1717
01:14:24,310 --> 01:14:22,429
the form and tell us what you think

1718
01:14:26,800 --> 01:14:24,320
there why are at the skeptical website

1719
01:14:30,609 --> 01:14:26,810
be sure to subscribe on itunes or

1720
01:14:33,069 --> 01:14:30,619
download directly any of our over 250

1721
01:14:36,240 --> 01:14:33,079
previous episodes of skeptical I've had

1722
01:14:38,770 --> 01:14:36,250
some nice emails lately of folks who are

1723
01:14:40,300 --> 01:14:38,780
digging into the library the archive

1724
01:14:41,620 --> 01:14:40,310
going back and listening to all these

1725
01:14:44,709 --> 01:14:41,630
shows and as I've told you many times

1726
01:14:47,830 --> 01:14:44,719
there's nothing more satisfying to me

1727
01:14:50,830 --> 01:14:47,840
and rewarding been to hear of folks who

1728
01:14:53,339 --> 01:14:50,840
are sharing this journey that I've taken

1729
01:14:56,500 --> 01:14:53,349
with me in our finding value in

1730
01:14:58,899 --> 01:14:56,510
listening to this library of old show so

1731
01:15:01,569 --> 01:14:58,909
I think that's just terrific and I want

1732
01:15:05,350 --> 01:15:01,579
to thank you again all of you for the

1733
01:15:07,120 --> 01:15:05,360
contribution you've made to I guess it

1734
01:15:10,089 --> 01:15:07,130
sounds kind of hokey but really my life

1735
01:15:13,930 --> 01:15:10,099
and how much skeptic Oh has really

1736
01:15:16,060 --> 01:15:13,940
affected me and affected my my worldview

1737
01:15:18,790 --> 01:15:16,070
and my relationships with just about

1738
01:15:21,790 --> 01:15:18,800
everyone who's most important to me in

1739
01:15:23,740 --> 01:15:21,800
my life so I have you this skeptical

1740
01:15:27,760 --> 01:15:23,750
audience to thank for that and for

1741
01:15:29,649 --> 01:15:27,770
helping me make that possible so I don't

1742
01:15:31,839 --> 01:15:29,659
think I say thank you enough and I

1743
01:15:33,700 --> 01:15:31,849
wanted to do that here so that's going

1744
01:15:36,280 --> 01:15:33,710
to do it for this episode I have a

1745
01:15:38,649 --> 01:15:36,290
number of interesting interviews coming

1746
01:15:40,720 --> 01:15:38,659
up many of you are helping me line up

1747
01:15:42,640 --> 01:15:40,730
and direct me towards those interviews

1748
01:15:46,030 --> 01:15:42,650
which i think is a great process that I

1749
01:15:49,300 --> 01:15:46,040
enjoy I am pretty well booked up through

1750
01:15:51,280 --> 01:15:49,310
the next few months so you might hold

1751
01:15:53,379 --> 01:15:51,290
off on some of those suggestions for a

1752
01:15:56,500 --> 01:15:53,389
while and then we'll get a new batch of

1753
01:15:58,419 --> 01:15:56,510
them later in the fall well again that's